Forum for Pigeon Fanciers
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  Report a StrayReport a Stray  UK Pigeon SalesUK Pigeon Sales  Jack Barkel Website.Jack Barkel Website.  Friendslofts WebsiteFriendslofts Website  Velocity CalculatorVelocity Calculator  Portal 2Portal 2  ebayebay  
Latest topics
» when are you pairing
by fieldwalker Today at 7:34 pm

» Red feet thoughts?
by fieldwalker Today at 7:31 pm

» Weather today
by halcanada Today at 6:23 pm

» Loft from a camper.
by halcanada Today at 6:19 pm

» Will Ray Buy at Blackpool Poll...
by fieldwalker Today at 6:14 pm

» Turbines...couple miles away.
by halcanada Today at 6:12 pm

» Ill Birds , Help Please.
by David Today at 5:34 pm

» Agm meeting tonight
by Knackered Today at 4:57 pm

» Good article
by Don Webb Today at 2:57 pm

Forum Syndicate
Pigeon World Syndicate Bird takes 81st Place in the 2017 Final Race, The Bird is Dia Evans Bloodlines and was Bred and supplied by Tumley Lofts Stud.
R.P.R.A Certificate.
Pigeon World Forum Syndicate take 81st Place in the 2017 R.P.R.A. Final, with a Pigeon Bred and Supplied by Tumley Lofts Stud.
Who is online?
In total there are 23 users online :: 3 Registered, 0 Hidden and 20 Guests :: 2 Bots

fieldwalker, halcanada, Romedius

Most users ever online was 144 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:37 am
Bucktons 2017 Calendar
Pigeon World Forum, Fancier of the Year Trophy.
Top posting users this week
David
 
fieldwalker
 
Knackered
 
Romedius
 
halcanada
 
markevans
 
Don Webb
 
Lofty
 
peel bros
 
oldstrain
 
Similar topics
Statistics
We have 1117 registered users
The newest registered user is WilloughbyLofts

Our users have posted a total of 161215 messages in 10679 subjects
Log in
Username:
Password:
Log in automatically: 
:: I forgot my password
Oldstrain/Darren`s Winner of winners. 2012.
From Fed Topper to Master Chef
The N.E.H.U race from Melton Mowbray 21/4/2012 was won by Peel bros of South Shields, they took 1st club 1st fed, also taking 2nd and 4th club and 15 of the 25 birds clocked in the club......well done Peel brothers.
John Gibbs young pied/grizzle winner.
Top posters
David
 
Don Webb
 
IANYOUNG
 
oldstrain
 
peel bros
 
Knackered
 
Gaz b
 
birdy2011
 
Rene A
 
Alex
 

Share | 
 

 Breeding or inbreeding?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
halcanada
Youngbird
Youngbird
avatar

Posts : 2274
Join date : 2014-03-11
Age : 78
Location : Southern Ontario. Canada.

PostSubject: Breeding or inbreeding?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:11 pm

This from Steve van Breeman.
"Generation after generation I used inbred methods and in the end I bred the birds as I had them in mind in the beginning. Pigeons who bred after a severe selection on high results National Ace pigeons and breeders in which the breeding value was present in a very high percentage.
It was soon very clear to me that importing new bloodlines into the heavily inbred strain was necessairy but very dangerous too. Necessary because the pigeon meets degeneration after having been severely inbred for years. I think it is hardly impossible to maintain the racing ability of a strain without bringing in new fresh blood from another loft c.q. strain"
Below the Mexican Jannsens.
“Please keep in mind that this family being so inbred for so many generations; (ten, twenty and even thirty generations) were not the conventionally strong hybrid vigor individuals. There was no way of obtaining that vigor and maintaining the purity, so that procedure in my case was unacceptable. That part was covered by those that used them for reproductive and improvement purposes.”~ Mauricio Jemal Personal Correspondence July 14th, 2016

“Yes, thirty inbred generations were produced without the benefit of competing them. The selected ones were not even allowed out of the lofts. In other words, not settled. Thirty one years later, the combined offspring from the breeding, were competed in the small club here in Uruapan, winning everything in the first Y.B. series. How’s that for something that can’t be done?”
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
fieldwalker
Hatchling
Hatchling
avatar

Posts : 656
Join date : 2011-10-01
Age : 57
Location : BOLDON COLLIERY TYNE&WEAR

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:39 pm

I wonder how many pairs he started out with?
then pairing half brothers to half sisters then gsire to gdaughter
uncles to neices and...and...
i dont know Embarassed
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
David
Oldbird
Oldbird
avatar

Posts : 30749
Join date : 2009-03-17
Location : Leeds

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:55 pm

does anyone think it matters breeding brother to sister etc, they will race yes.....but will it throw something out in generations to come like a deformed bird.../
Back to top Go down
View user profile
oldstrain
Oldbird
Oldbird
avatar

Posts : 10709
Join date : 2011-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:19 pm

amazing 30 inbred generations unraced Shocked
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Boosey
Youngbird
Youngbird
avatar

Posts : 1537
Join date : 2013-08-09
Age : 46
Location : Basildon, Essex

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:19 pm

I wonder how many times he paired each year. Surely he didn’t do it for 30 years without racing them, that’s a long experiment.
90% of us would be brown bread if we tried that. cheers
Back to top Go down
View user profile
halcanada
Youngbird
Youngbird
avatar

Posts : 2274
Join date : 2014-03-11
Age : 78
Location : Southern Ontario. Canada.

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:04 pm

Piet De Weerd selected 6 pairs for him way back when. He moved from the US to Mexico. Flew in the biggest club there. Won everything so after a few years they disbanded the club.
The article is here. Long one but worth the read.
http://www.bigandysoneloftrace.com/articles
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
halcanada
Youngbird
Youngbird
avatar

Posts : 2274
Join date : 2014-03-11
Age : 78
Location : Southern Ontario. Canada.

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:37 pm

"does anyone think it matters breeding brother to sister etc, they will race yes.....but will it throw something out in generations to come like a deformed bird.../"
Brother to sister. As far as I understand they have basically the same genes. If both are exceptional then logically offspring will be also. Phil could probably answer better than I. But if a mutt occurs and others are exceptional, worth it.
Going years back I had German Shepherds. Bred them for intelligence etc,. One day my wife came home with a white German Shepherd pup. Female. I had her bred in due time to a white male. Had sold all my other darker Shepherds. She had a litter of 6. Kept one male. Year later she came into heat again and the mother and son were in adjoining pens, chain link fence between them. Summertime. During the night the son dug more than 2 feet down to get under the fence to his mother then bred her. She had 4 pups eventually. One had a slight deformity on his paw. Other 3 normal. One pup was long haired and large. I sold the big hairy one at 6 months of age. Others had already gone. The woman who bought him lived next to a liquor store. Off licence? She had a son 6 years old. She was single. What she told me was this. She left the dog and kid at home and made a quick trip to the grocery store. On getting back, she found the large shaggy white pup had a male friend cornered. Boy was behind the dog. Boy and dog did not know the man. So protection mode kicked in. That dog is priceless, is what she told me. So, some exceptional subjects come from inbreeding. So does mediocrity. Persons choice.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
fieldwalker
Hatchling
Hatchling
avatar

Posts : 656
Join date : 2011-10-01
Age : 57
Location : BOLDON COLLIERY TYNE&WEAR

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:33 am

Theres been plenty good pigeons from brother and sister matings but perhaps we
don't read about the duds....same as any other pairing. Razz
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Knackered
Oldbird
Oldbird
avatar

Posts : 6386
Join date : 2013-03-10

PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:42 am

fieldwalker wrote:
I wonder how many pairs he started out with?
then pairing half brothers to half sisters then gsire to gdaughter
uncles to neices and...and...
i dont know Embarassed
Not 12 pair I suspect Fieldwalker Wink Wink.
*****
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Breeding or inbreeding?   

Back to top Go down
 
Breeding or inbreeding?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Line breeding/Inbreeding ?
» line breeding/in breeeding
» Inbreeding in scorpions?
» Babycurus jacksoni breeding question
» Inbreeding, any good?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Racing Pigeons,Show & Fancy Pigeons :: Message Forum :: General Discussions-
Jump to: