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 The old ways.

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halcanada
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PostSubject: The old ways.   Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:45 am

Visit from an old 80 plus ex flier today. Interesting conversation. He won at all distances. His reputation stemmed from the fact he never medicated. Every one had told me "never medicates". So I asked him. "Your birds must have been tough! Winning at all distances! No meds."
He asked me for a glass of wine. His wife was driving so gave him one. Then a few more as he rattled on about his birds.
Asked him "How come they never flew much for others that bought them?"
He laughed. Then winked. "They did not do what I did with the birds."
"They did not medicate them" I said. "Same as you were doing."
Wine was getting to him.
"No meds? Bullshit! I tell guys that they I do not use them. Gives me an advantage. I medicated when necessary. Some times pumped them up with them. You do whatever it takes to win!!! Or why fly them?"
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:05 am

Good one Hal...that wasn't wine...it was truth serum... study
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:55 pm

There are many roads to Rome,

I doubt if there has not been successful fanciers using every means under the sun
some beyond belief.

I used completey open loft, young and old together. all the time, no medication whatsoever, no illness other than the very odd one going light, which either recovered from an Old Hand tablet or did not. No YBS or anything else.

Fed exactly the same all the year round and cleaned out very rarely, having sand and lime deep litter,the only additive they had was garlic in their water every day.


And yes I won far more than my share in every club I raced in and from every race point North and South and I GAVE many pigeons to fanciers who won with them, form 60 mies to over 500 miles.

Also countless cards in many shows.


Latter day fanciers have made the sport too complecated for their own good but in particular the pigeons.

The very best motivation is the love of home and that goes for humans as well, so provide the pigeons with a life that is as ideal as possible and which they are reluctant to be away from and BINGO.


Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:47 pm

MISTY wrote:
There are many roads to Rome,

I doubt if there has not been successful fanciers using every means under the sun
some beyond belief.

I used completey open loft, young and old together. all the time, no medication whatsoever, no illness other than the very odd one going light, which either recovered from an Old Hand tablet or did not. No YBS or anything else.

Fed exactly the same all the year round and cleaned out very rarely, having sand and lime deep litter,the only additive they had was garlic in their water every day.
 

And yes I won far more than my share in every club I raced in and from every race point North and South and I GAVE many pigeons to fanciers who won with them, form 60 mies to over 500 miles.

Also countless cards in many shows.


Latter day fanciers have made the sport too complecated for their own good but in particular the pigeons.

The very best motivation is the love of home and that goes for humans as well, so provide the pigeons with a life that is as ideal as possible and which they are reluctant to be away from and BINGO.


Regards.
Similar type report card here Misty etc Wink Wink but I enjoyed pushing my team out to 600 miles as such Smile Smile for the enjoyment factor Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes. I also suggest the purist type brigade these days bounce bounce would cringe in horror unfortunately lol! lol! lol! on average, working on our systems of old I'm affraid Smile Smile. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:09 am

The old guy had his methods. Surprised at what he told me. But for the last 15 years or so do not medicate any more. Win some good ones. Few each year. Nothing spectacular. Not every week. But keeps me keen. The love of the nest box or loft I beleive tops all motivation factors. Reasonable feeding and management and the base is set. If the birds cannot compete then either get rid of those and buy better than what you have. Or just concentrate on a few. Lets face it folks. Out of 30 young birds you will get, on average, 15 good ones tops. Out of the 15 good ones maybe 2 wll go on to be top performers. The problem I see is that many people, myself included, do not cull enough. Usually because the parents had pedigrees and cost money. Everyone is reluctant to waste money on an investment.
However, each to their own. Will post another topic on here. Culling.  
By the way. Thanks to the folks on here who joined my Facebook page. Sort of limits my in put. Used to plagarize stuff!
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:11 am

halcanada wrote:
The old guy had his methods. Surprised at what he told me. But for the last 15 years or so do not medicate any more. Win some good ones. Few each year. Nothing spectacular. Not every week. But keeps me keen. The love of the nest box or loft I beleive tops all motivation factors. Reasonable feeding and management and the base is set. If the birds cannot compete then either get rid of those and buy better than what you have. Or just concentrate on a few. Lets face it folks. Out of 30 young birds you will get, on average, 15 good ones tops. Out of the 15 good ones maybe 2 wll go on to be top performers. The problem I see is that many people, myself included, do not cull enough. Usually because the parents had pedigrees and cost money. Everyone is reluctant to waste money on an investment.
However, each to their own. Will post another topic on here. Culling.  
By the way. Thanks to the folks on here who joined my Facebook page. Sort of limits my in put. Used to plagarize stuff!
Plagiarize Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes lol! lol! lol! NO, NO NO  bounce  bounce not you Hal Smile Smile My faith etc, in your wisdom has been shattered some what lol! lol! lol! unfortunately, with that news here Wink Wink. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:23 am

halcanada wrote:
Visit from an old 80 plus ex flier today. Interesting conversation. He won at all distances. His reputation stemmed from the fact he never medicated. Every one had told me "never medicates". So I asked him. "Your birds must have been tough! Winning at all distances! No meds."
He asked me for a glass of wine. His wife was driving so gave him one. Then a few more as he rattled on about his birds.
Asked him "How come they never flew much for others that bought them?"
He laughed. Then winked. "They did not do what I did with the birds."
"They did not medicate them" I said. "Same as you were doing."
Wine was getting to him.
"No meds? Bullshit! I tell guys that they I do not use them. Gives me an advantage. I medicated when necessary. Some times pumped them up with them. You do whatever it takes to win!!! Or why fly them?"

lol! lol! lol! funny how the amber nectar sends the tongue into overdrive
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:05 am

The natural system will win today if properly maintained, it is the in betweenies that muddle matters up that let the win at any cost win.

You can make a bear dance, but at what cost.

You can also win races by similar means.

I never trained my pigeons more than once and sometimes the young not before the first race, if I did train the first toss was at least 35 miles.

I have jumped pigeons from North to South in the same year and won with both.

If your pigeons are kept natural there are numerouse advantages over any other method and if you know your pigeons individually by not keeping too many all the better.

The young are fed as long as the parents naturally know what is best, if you feed onto deep litter it replaces that lost in polishing the feed, the pigeons raise their natural immune system as wild birds do by comming into contact with possible problems and dealing with them, they get all the daylight hours possible which benifits any animal including humans, if you are observant any pigeon will tell you when it is in the most likely mood to return faster and on the natural system I think it actually enjoys the challenge, none of mine ever complained.

If I was just starting up I would still use exactly the same methods and be more than confident of winning my share.

We should be teaching the young to respect the pigeons before submiting them to unatural lives.

To winning by giving the pigeons a good life is more rewarding than making a bear dance.


Regards.



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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:28 am

MISTY wrote:
The natural system will win today if properly maintained, it is the in betweenies that muddle matters up that let the win at any cost win.

You can make a bear dance, but at what cost.

You can also win races by similar means.

I never trained my pigeons more than once and sometimes the young not before the first race, if I did train the first toss was at least 35 miles.

I have jumped pigeons from North to South in the same year and won with both.

If your pigeons are kept natural there are numerouse advantages over any other method and if you know your pigeons individually by not keeping too many all the better.

The young are fed as long as the parents naturally know what is best, if you feed onto deep litter it replaces that lost in polishing the feed, the pigeons raise their natural immune system as wild birds do by comming into contact with possible problems and dealing with them, they get all the daylight hours possible which benifits any animal including humans, if you are observant any pigeon will tell you when it is in the most likely mood to return faster and on the natural system I think it actually enjoys the challenge, none of mine ever complained.

If I was just starting up I would still use exactly the same methods and be more than confident of winning my share.

We should be teaching the young to respect the pigeons before submiting them to unatural lives.

To winning by giving the pigeons a good life is more rewarding than making a bear dance.


Regards.

 

Interesting thoughts Misty Smile Smile. But think of all the basket work Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes you have missed out on starting off at around 35 miles etc Wink Wink the sheer joy ???? bounce bounce of going 1-2-4-8-16-32 as such. Also, normal here to race north & then toss south. Water of a ducks back I suggest Smile Smile if everything else is in place. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:49 pm

One of the most enjoyable parts of the sport for me was seeing the pigeons doing what they wanted at any time I liked just by looking through the window.

As I have said there are many ways and I would have got no enjoyment going up and down the road with a basket full of pigeons that would be getting fitter by doing their own thing around the loft, up and down with nesting material, taking off and flying for two or three hours after sitting on the nest etc; far more beneficial than up and down the road, and getting the benefit of the sun etc;

A pigeon does not want showing it's way home, when i gave all my pigeons away to the same fancier a young one returned the next day from 65 miles, it was still squeaking.

My only intention is to give youngsters the prospect of being able to enjoy the sport without all the Tommy Rot that is spouted as being necessary which makes the sport apparently beyond the ordinary fancier who has not got a bottomless pocket.

There are one or two young people engaged in the sport and the clubs that are lucky enough to have them should give as much publicity to them in their local papers etc; for others to see their names in the paper may give others an interest.

Regards


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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:21 pm

halcanada wrote:
Visit from an old 80 plus ex flier today. Interesting conversation. He won at all distances. His reputation stemmed from the fact he never medicated. Every one had told me "never medicates". So I asked him. "Your birds must have been tough! Winning at all distances! No meds."
He asked me for a glass of wine. His wife was driving so gave him one. Then a few more as he rattled on about his birds.
Asked him "How come they never flew much for others that bought them?"
He laughed. Then winked. "They did not do what I did with the birds."
"They did not medicate them" I said. "Same as you were doing."
Wine was getting to him.
"No meds? Bullshit! I tell guys that they I do not use them. Gives me an advantage. I medicated when necessary. Some times pumped them up with them. You do whatever it takes to win!!! Or why fly them?"


lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:22 pm

very interesting post misty, so did you have your birds on open hole type system ? I can see the benefit of that, flying as and if they want, whenever they want....you mention that to train birds you are not teaching them the way home, I understand where you are coming from, as this is the thing they have built into them, the homing instinct.....whats your thoughts on training to the line of flight, or just either side , to teach them to break when racing...?
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:51 pm

Hi, David,
I had completely open hole, never fastned the loft up at night other than in mid summer because they would be out at three in the morning and although in over 45 years the neighbours have never said a wrong word about the pigeons I thought it only right because they did make a din at times, the only person who grumbled at times was my wife but don't they all?.

I do not believe a pigeon needs any navigational training because I think they are well aware all the time where their loft is and know just how to find it, I agree that drag can take them off course and that I know there are breaking points as I saw this on Olivers Mount so had a loft at the time, a disused army look out point, on a friends farm until vermin broke in and took all the birds when we foumd who had done it the pigeeons had all had their rings removed and were in a dreadful state , we put paper notes on the birds with the police in attendance and relased them to prove they were our birds, their condition was so ad that only one returned on the day from less tha two miles but was sufficinet to put the culprits in jail for a year.

So I decided the loft was too isolated and put my present loft in the back garden, but we had scored seral times in a very short time from the Olivers Mount loft.

I think that everything regarding racing depends solely on motivation, fistly and then giving the pigeon the best health and means do do what you ask of it, and I have been more than happy with everything during over 75 years, at times I have got more pleasure when I have been waiting for the last rather than the first, to see them all back was always the greatest pleasure.


Regards.


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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:25 am

There are many roads to success. Some fanciers have a rigid schedule and stick to it. Training, meds, feed whatever. Many do well with their system so do not change it. Pointless to do so. Many others do not train so much, evaluate the pigeons feed so much. Protien, fat, carbs. System (so called) of observe and react. Sick? Treat them. If you cannot do it with natural products buy the meds. If you know the cause or problem. Many do, many do not. Many blanket medicate. Nothing really wrong with that. However, bugs build up resistance to meds. Same as humans. So Super bugs. I have not medicated in many years. However, I medicated quite often before. Why? Because I could get just about any med for free. Talking antibiotics here. Plus Cortisones etc. Then simplified matters. No meds. Sick they recover or die or heads pulled. That was an eye opener! 25%were culled that way in two years. I did not have too many pigeons back then. Here is a fact. My winners, except one I killed, showed no signs of ill health. 600 mile winner, 200 mile winner and all winners in all distances in between. This is not a way to go for most. I encourage anyone who Medicates or not to go with what works. I have too many birds. Culling will be extreme this season. But that is my way. Too many birds too much time for me.
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:48 am

MISTY wrote:
Hi, David,
             I had completely open hole, never fastned the loft up at night other than in mid summer because they would be out at three in the morning and although in over 45 years the neighbours have never said a wrong word about the pigeons I thought it only right because they did make a din at times, the only person who grumbled at times was my wife but don't they all?.

I do not believe a pigeon needs any navigational training because I think they are well aware all the time where their loft is and know just how to find it, I agree that drag can take them off course and that I know there are breaking points as I saw this on Olivers Mount so had a loft at the time, a disused army look out point, on a friends farm until vermin broke in and took all the birds when we foumd who had done it the pigeeons had all had their rings removed and were in a dreadful state , we put paper notes on the birds with the police in attendance and relased them to prove they were our birds, their condition was so ad that only one returned on the day from less tha two miles but was sufficinet to put the culprits in jail for a year.

So I decided the loft was too isolated and put my present loft in the back garden, but we had scored seral times in a very short time from the Olivers Mount loft.

I think that everything regarding racing depends solely on motivation, fistly and then giving the pigeon the best health and means do do what you ask of it, and I have been more than happy with everything during over 75 years, at times I have got more pleasure when I have been waiting for the last rather than the first, to see them all back was always the greatest pleasure.


Regards.
   
           
Enjoyed the last part of your wisdom Misty Smile Smile. These days, some Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes only think that the first bird is the one which has any importance etc unfortunately. But as you say, the enjoyment factor bounce bounce can be achieved in many a strange type of way at times, for some of us as such Smile Smile.  cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:15 pm

I forgot to mention what I feel is a more important point regarding
how I treated my pigeons, from day one they had garlic in the water every day, and even when the water in the pond was available the drinkers, which rarely got cleaned other than on the Queens Birthday, were always needing topping up.

I also bred canaries for over 45 years which were kept in an open aviary adjacent to the pigeon loft, and treated them in a similar way to the pigeons.

Nothing to do with being idle but as nature dictates.

Those keeping their canaries in clinical conditions have constant health problems and many losses whilst breeding, the experts told me I had just been lucky, not bad luck for over 45 years then.

I usually gave double figure young canaries away every year.

You cannot beat Mother Nature she was formulated by a far higher authority than mankind.

Regards.




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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:20 am

Mother Nature did not race pigeons. For better or worse. Humans did. With competition comes the ambition to be the best. Club or Fed. Mother Natures way was transformed over many years to present day methods. We all know this. However, there is a point when too much, feed, meds etc, tip the balance backwards as to performance health etc,. If one person can find the perfect balance let me know!!
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:12 am

MISTY wrote:
I forgot to mention what I feel is a more important point regarding
how I treated my pigeons, from day one they had garlic in the water every day, and even when the water in the pond was available the drinkers, which rarely got cleaned other than on the Queens Birthday, were always needing topping up.

I also bred canaries for over 45 years which were kept in an open aviary adjacent to the pigeon loft, and treated them in a similar way to the pigeons.

Nothing to do with being idle but as nature dictates.

Those keeping their canaries in clinical conditions have constant health problems and many losses whilst breeding, the experts told me I had just been lucky, not bad luck for over 45 years then.

I usually gave double figure  young canaries away every year.

You cannot beat Mother Nature she was formulated by a far higher authority than mankind.

Regards.




 
One either loves or hates garlic for our birds I would suggest Misty Smile Smile. Just recently here bought a large container of spirulina (1kg) cheap at Costco Wink Wink as I had run out etc as it reminds me of those that are not big on cleaning the water troughs out as most do with their birds bounce bounce & the health benefits that it has, both for humans & maybe also pigeons  Wink  Wink. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The old ways.   Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:13 am

I have found in most things experience over a prolonged period is far superior to theory.

The garlic I have always used is cloves just crushed and put into the drinkers.

Just look at most of the chinless pampered humans, brought up in clinical conditions and have more problems than most.

I have always put the welfare of my animals first, rather than how I can exploit them.

If one is happy with their situation and methods then that is their choice and I have no problem with that, it is just that I would never engage in many of the methods used as I have always got out of the sport far more pleasure putting the pigeons first and anything that resulted as a bonus, as I have said many times over the years.

Set off thinking you will not be successful and EVERYTHING is a bonus the other way ??????.

Regards.
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