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Pigeon World Syndicate Bird takes 81st Place in the 2017 Final Race, The Bird is Dia Evans Bloodlines and was Bred and supplied by Tumley Lofts Stud.
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Oldstrain/Darren`s Winner of winners. 2012.
From Fed Topper to Master Chef
The N.E.H.U race from Melton Mowbray 21/4/2012 was won by Peel bros of South Shields, they took 1st club 1st fed, also taking 2nd and 4th club and 15 of the 25 birds clocked in the club......well done Peel brothers.
John Gibbs young pied/grizzle winner.
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 Eye sign indicator.

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Daz
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:45 pm

A mate of mine was a good friend of Bill Carney … not so much his son.

Said that A. He would charge £1 for every one he culled. mate said he'd do that. Though a good friend, and after a couple of times he knocked it on the head. He didn't have the results he was looking for. Mind He had a lot of basic learning to do, that was for sure. Son was a better flyer in no time, but the fell out too much.
So I ask again the question, like I do / did always. How much the fancier and how much the bird … Also one must remember these experts or so called aren't in the loft racing for you!
Some will never fly a kite, a paper bag, let alone a pigeon regardless.
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MISTY
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Any good fancier is well aware that there is no fool proof way in which to determine the merits of a pigeons potential from the outside.

Many theories, Yes, but Just as many that conform to the criteria are dummies and just as many winners do not conform, choose what the theory may be.

I found Bill Carney well educated in the eye sign theory, and I also asked him, and he did, judge one of our eyecsign shows.

I always liken it to a motor car, you can have a real good looker painted to perfection, lift the bonnet and BINGO no ENGINE.

Regards.





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Knackered
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:14 pm

MISTY wrote:
Any good fancier is well aware that there is no fool proof way in which to determine the merits of a pigeons potential from the outside.

Many theories, Yes, but Just as many that conform to the criteria are dummies and just as many winners do not conform, choose what the theory may be.

I found Bill Carney well educated in the eye sign theory, and I also asked him, and he did, judge one  of our eyecsign shows.

I always liken it to a motor car, you can have a real good looker painted to perfection, lift the bonnet and BINGO no ENGINE.

Regards.





lol! lol! lol! Reminds me Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes of my new found Chinese mate next door here Misty etc Wink Wink Drives the latest model BMW as such, with a personal number plate. Sitting beside it thou in my drive way bounce bounce sadly, is my mean, mean machine lol! lol! lol! one Berlingo van Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad. Strange thing is thou Wink Wink drive from A to B in any direction Smile Smile & they both will get you there type of thing Wink Wink. cheers
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Daz
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:52 am

Personally I believe every loft should have a yard stick … especially when having do a first season or so... at loft, then Club / fed etc.
When one finds out what works for him, he should only ever tweak at best, and be prepared A. to give it a little time, and B. prepared to go back and start again regardless. Same as for birds, regardless of likes and dislike likes, costs or pedigree, previous owners ETC.
I also believe once a mandate has been set out accept it may be at least 2 -3 -4 years even till the merits shine through. One swallow doesn't make a summer but often one pairing can set a loft up.
Strangely enough, admitted they were friends first and clients so to speak later after a few years, like Misty I moulded different birds from different lofts, and stay away as far as possible from close breeding. Then I copied like ALL good lofts and brought in birds to keep the ….

A very good friend of mine - a national winner and ALWAYS there about at the top - bred me a round. They didn't like my set up. They were the ones that ma\de my losses 25%! After two seasons NONE, not even a descendant had made it to thirds year.
My mate, a bit peeved stated I had asked too much and was a bit harsh! I smiled that be as it may …. But never added 'But the other birds did it in their stride.
Was I sad to see that? Well they certainly fetched the eye … but not the cards, so it is put down to a sad state of affairs.
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MISTY
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:29 am

The trouble is Daz that you know what you do with your birds etc; and only know what others TELL you they do.

The best book on pigeons would be if you could get a few pigeons to talk, I bet there would be a few eye openers.

I bet the more you consider the past Daz the more you thank the Lord for the times past, for I am afraid we now live in very sad times in many respects.

Regards.
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Daz
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:40 pm

You know, we all hear - and mostly agree -- that folks hate change! Also a very much a truth is that 'One becomes comfortable with habits, bad or good!

When I ran the Boxing gym, or soccer's teams I was very mindful of often stating 'Bad habits are as easy to learn as good ones, and both last a lifetime nigh!
Change for change sake becomes the norm then with very many.

You can't put a wise head on your, or a young head … but you can listen and learn BEFROE going down a wayward and detrimental road.

Most changes in this sport, like very many others come about simply to enable one / concern etc. to make money.
I feel in all honesty that 90% of what these people, or concerns promote hide behind a nod and wink instead of truth.
Acorns, for a good example, DID the birds well. Racing and breeding, no two ways about that.... Many after the war years had no option but to use them because of money being tight, But it is, became, easier by far to buy a inferior bag at a good price than to go and pinch the squirrels and jays nuts lol.- Some bags are good... But as said before the cheap wheat and Barley did a great job.... till word was spread regards Rata and Mice droppings.... Strange that! Had done a great job till then! Follow the leader and take notice of the one that wants you to always finish behind him eh! One thing for sure, if propping up the table each years and decide to do things differently next season or when … and do the same, you will do the same and prop up table yet again. No disrespect here, but many have reasons why they won't, usually because most do the same!
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:24 pm

good post there daz, interesting .... cheers study
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fieldwalker
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:59 am

Nothing wrong with grain straight from the farm,but theres farmers and farmers.
Localy to me i can think of 4 cereal growers.
One has an open barn storage area open at the front.
Wild birds and feral pigeons in and out the building,his cats use it as a deep litter.
Another one,where i get wheat n barley,closed in storage properly dried as most goes as biscuit wheat barley is plump and golden,keeps a keen eye out for vermin,no not all farmers are the same and nor is the quality of there grains.
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:18 am

90% of ALL my feeds etc, were straight from the farm. Think only time not if wanting Maize (or hemp) for their heat in winters real cold and windy days.
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:05 pm

Never seen a wild bird suffering from farm seed, seen many racing pigeons ruined by bad management including feeding methods, strange.


Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:47 am

MISTY wrote:
Never seen a wild bird suffering from farm seed, seen many racing pigeons ruined by bad management including feeding methods, strange.


Regards.
One Smile Smile top of the draw type flyers here Misty bounce bounce will not buy normal pigeon seed as such, but only that what is classed as for human consumption/grade etc. Then by all accounts he still picks the worst of what he may see in it out & then throws it all away as such. Dedication Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes far beyond what I could/would ever do as such, but I do admire the man for the results he achieves here. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:57 am

Guy deserves credit. If it works for him (expensive) then good for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:48 am

MISTY wrote:
Never seen a wild bird suffering from farm seed, seen many racing pigeons ruined by bad management including feeding methods, strange.


Regards.
Never seen a wild bird win a race either lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:47 am

fieldwalker wrote:
Nothing wrong with grain straight from the farm,but theres farmers and farmers.
Localy to me i can think of 4 cereal growers.
One has an open barn storage area open at the front.
Wild birds and feral pigeons in and out the building,his cats use it as a deep litter.
Another one,where i get wheat n barley,closed in storage properly dried as most goes as biscuit wheat barley is plump and golden,keeps a keen eye out for vermin,no not all farmers are the same and nor is the quality of there grains.

totally agree the farmers have varying degrees of quality control i was lucky to get good wheat and barley this year for the winter months to add to a mix last year the barley was awful so gave it a miss ,seems better this year but then a different farmer,so depends on the farmer and the quality of his grains for me ...also had pre mixed stuff with mould on ...maize is the worst for it ,always keep yer eyes peeled as it would be a nightmare to feed bad corn the birds don't cope with the toxins at all well
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Daz
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:15 am

fieldwalker wrote:
MISTY wrote:
Never seen a wild bird suffering from farm seed, seen many racing pigeons ruined by bad management including feeding methods, strange.


Regards.
Never seen a wild bird win a race either lol!
No! But many have lol.

A national winner had a youngster in of mine. He is in the same club etc. Asked if he could keep it, as he had never seen a pigeon so wild'! Mine were often that way for one way or another, but flew well.

Had a church pigeon in a few weeks old. Kept returning. So clean it up and was a great watch dog. Would take it training up to 60 miles … With other fanciers birds. NONE ever beat it home, mine or theirs.
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:19 am

Known many a stray raced. Knew two lofts - like many - set up with rung 'Church pigeons' that excelled.
Man named Willis collected any Black pigeons from the gas Silos. Raced them and was nigh unbeatable at all distances... Sold out to a well known Stud for real good money.
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am

oldstrain wrote:
fieldwalker wrote:
Nothing wrong with grain straight from the farm,but theres farmers and farmers.
Localy to me i can think of 4 cereal growers.
One has an open barn storage area open at the front.
Wild birds and feral pigeons in and out the building,his cats use it as a deep litter.
Another one,where i get wheat n barley,closed in storage properly dried as most goes as biscuit wheat barley is plump and golden,keeps a keen eye out for vermin,no not all farmers are the same and nor is the quality of there grains.

totally agree the farmers have varying degrees of quality control i was lucky to get good wheat and barley this year for the winter months to add to a mix last year the barley was awful so gave it a miss ,seems better this year but then a different farmer,so depends on the farmer and the quality of his grains for me ...also had pre mixed stuff with mould on ...maize is the worst for it ,always keep yer eyes peeled as it would be a nightmare to feed bad corn the birds don't cope with the toxins at all well
Watched a video/dvd about the firm Natural O/S Smile Smile about how they source there grain so to speak & the tricks some farmers get up too in unloading there whole crop so to speak. Top quality up on top Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes for all to see bounce bounce crap buried well down below etc out of sight. In the end, they take 3 samples from each load there, top, middle & bottom of the pile & work on an average type of grade by their standards. Also interesting for me, it appears they don't actually produce a pigeon pellet for the trade/pigeon flyer either. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Eye sign indicator.   Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:05 am

Mycotoxins are treated for with fungicides. Prior to harvest. Spray application on growing corn. Mould is treated if need be in storage. Just cannot see bad corn nowadays. However, sprays used may have a residual effect on the harvested crop.
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