New yb perches

Over the years there will be thousands of different scenarios regarding our sport, some appear contradictory etc;

With regard to overcrowding.

The worst possible senario is to have a loft with constant bickering going on and fighting causing injuries not to mention all the probable health hazards involved.

If the pigeon is contented and has a love of it's home that is the best motivation possoble and the longest lasting. and is impossible if the loft is overcrowded.

One well known continental fancier who won constantly out of turn had his pgeons above his cattle shed, each pigeon had ample room to get out of any sqables etc; but as things were could not see any happening.

The inside of the loft was deep litter, pigeons droppings, cob webs you could swing from but perfectly dry.

Cats were also apparent above the loft, secluded by wire netting and they never bothered the pigeons.


He built a posh loft and never was the same fancier again.

Cannot think of a worse scenario than an overcrowded loft.

Regards.

Just one example of many.

You have a small cock bird that has a heart as big as a bucket and ability to match regarding racing, but all it's desire to perform is knocked put of it by a useless dominant cock, and decides to find a better place to live, perhaps reason for some losses along with health problems.


Regards.

Never ever seen in the loft, or in townies Pigeons nesting away from each other.  Amazingly they nest as near as can be. Under bridges etc. the same. They sit tight and  peacefully … Yes every so often they give a warning to any within a pecking distance THEN settle down and sit tight.
A natural element of their make up. They flew quicker to get home and make sure that teir territory wasn't being infringed. Likewise when having to hens I same box. A little bit of a squabble... they flew well to get home.
Now regards a pigeon being motivated by a hen or such... they fly to the territory. A perch, a nest box. This is 'Home and defended.
Yes Misty it happens sometimes two pigeons want the same Perch / nest box and will fight for it. the loser WON'T race so good that week - end etc. The winner excels.

This happens whether you have 30 perches / nest boxes to 10 pigeon or pairs.
It is part and partial to their make up. It is an added bonus and a very important part of wanting home.

Also I believe it is far, far better in terms of ailments etc. Let it go through them all and sorted in a short time. Nothing worse I'd imagine that, then one after another going down, off colour over an extended time. Better by far they all, if suseptical, to go same time. Quicker cleaned up the better.

 Was at a moot when some very good fanciers were on the table. Two eminent vets too.
As they said, if a pigeon vomits they LEAVE it there, and if other pigeons do - and is likely - eat it up So be it. Then when gone through the loft and fixed, that has to be the way to go.

I would, do , and did just leave them to get on with it etc. Help if really needed.
Again a pigeon or whatever has to get a strain / virus or such to be able to get and build up an immunity.
I never wanted a loft full of propped up pigeons, treated and looking the part. Like Henry Cecil stated, lean , mean and ready to run. In the case of Pigeons FLY!

If a pigeon is not happy it will lose it's self. I must admit, in my so - called over crowded loft, pigeon OFF the top became a rarity. Far better than those I had with ample room etc.

iN In a 6 x 5 foot compartment I'd have 16 or more pairs breeding. Very any real fighting. Some time no more than a squabble... usually a dominate cock bird.  Rung on both legs it was easy to tie a bit of string to restrict a little in it's leg movements. Couldn't fight so didn't!
But a Transferred to a 6x4 next door compartment with 40 perches. I'd love a £1 for every time

Building immunity has nothing to do with numbers, with large numbers the probability is you will have constant different problems, rather than a reasonable number that you can actually husband easily in all respects.

For immunity to be improved there is only one way, the survival of the fittest, as in nature.

I bet those who have large numbers in small spaces have constant problems and treat their birds accordingly and I would not believe otherwise.

You do not improve the immune system overnight it takes years.

If you introduce new stock they can set it back if the new 0nes have different problems, and many have, having been kept on all kinds of curative and preventative medications.

It is each to his own, I have always kept any animal it has been my pleasure to have in a manner I would have liked to be kept were I in their place, and I have had as much pleasure as possible from doing so.

Any other way I would not have considered.

Been repaid a millionfold.


Regards.

Building immunity has nothing to do with numbers, with large numbers the probability is you will have constant different problems, rather than a reasonable number that you can actually husband easily in all respects. … agreed somewhat… but that is a never ending progress in today's environment ...
So better to let them ALL if not resilient, the sooner the better.

Though I disagree strongly with the scenario of '… with large numbers the probability is you will have constant different problems'. That simply not true nor bears any merit.
Much is 'Airborne'. Then contact with other birds drinker etc. in panniers.

Simple reality is that is suspectable , or prong too any ailment, virus, then your's will be infected. How badly depends largely on their immunity and constitution.

I bet those who have large numbers in small spaces have constant problems and treat their birds accordingly and I would not believe otherwise. … That's your prerogative, but you would lose the bet.

It is each to his own, I have always kept any animal it has been my pleasure to have in a manner I would have liked to be kept were I in their place, and I have had as much pleasure as possible from doing so.
But then animals, birds etc. AREN'T humans. In some things they lack, in others excel compared to us.


Was at a meeting with the British medical board regards Boxing / sports etc.
A tale related said 'You are in the gym when a boxer, very keen to learn and hates missing any thing comes into the gym full of flu. What would you do, tell him.
Most answers were 'Send him home to bed, drink... so forth and so on.

He noticed I had raise a hand or commented – unusual for me lol. Any way he asks me 'What do you think, do'?
I said 'I'd tell him not to exercise as his body needed strength to combat the ailments, and sit up the corner and watch, and learn'.

Quite right he said. IF any any one is , for any reason prone to it, then they will show the symptoms and the body reacts accordingly. ALL will every where be contacted, or infected. Some will suffer, others to a lesser degree, and some it won't affect at all'! True. Can one stop air going in to the loft? No. Can one stop their birds drinking in a pannier NOT be affected? Of course not. Some suffer, others take no note.

I challenged many to put their birds against mine in regards condition and health! Nary a one came close to mine. Indeed Barry, Gary and many more often said 'I wish I could get that condition in mine' regards my birds.
Yes it took a lot of time, especially with the poorly birds in very many lofts today. But they were never molley coddled, or treated willy - nilly. Indeed very seldom. Yes I abides, not willingly, to the Parva jabs etc. etc. BUT never ever had a medicence cabinet. Was a time when I treated youngster for cocci – going light – which I once seemed to get... But last 20 od years never.

Each to their own I guess... But far too many are bolstered up and often, very often not worth it.

Think we are along the same lines, Daz, but with some slight differences of opinion, but I feel both end up with better and healthier pigeons than the majority who treat ad lib.

Other than for the first few years I had no health problems with my pigeons at all.

Could clean the feet and put them in a show, including some big shows and win with them.

I put their health down to two things, lime and garlic and open loft, the latter being as important as the former two, the pigeons know what is good and what is bad when having open loft and pick and choose at will.

Would never contemplate either the darkness system nor widowhood, I know they are animals but when in our care should be (in my opinion) given the relevant respect.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Think we are along the same lines, Daz, but with some slight differences of opinion, but I feel both end up with better and healthier pigeons than the majority who treat ad lib.

Other than for the first few years I had no health problems with my pigeons at all.

Could clean the feet and put them in a show, including some big shows and win with them.  

I put their health down to two things, lime and garlic and open loft, the latter  being as important as the former two, the pigeons know what is good and what is bad when having open loft and pick and choose at will.

Would never contemplate either the darkness system nor  widowhood, I  know they are animals but when in our care should be (in my opinion) given the relevant respect.


Regards.

Would suggest it best if most think along the same lines Misty on average as suggested. But if one has the privilege of seeing the complete opposite in operation & working to the highest degree in the performance factor for over 30 odd years there with out dispute it can make one maybe wonder & question most things which are written as must do requirements if one wishes to be successful from my perspective.

Misty says quote: 'Other than for the first few years I had no health problems with my pigeons at all'.
Ditto Misty... Going light and odd canker.

The way I view it Misty is as we all must agree no Immunity can be built up without at FIRST a creature, / pigeons have they Phaethon's etc. CONTACT.
A crowded loft does a wonderful and quick job there. Especially as a different strength can then also be gotten.
Most had this as it was thought, and maybe natural as all creatures lose weight shortly after weaning / birth.

As for canker, well a fit and healthy bird actually needs a strain. This is what stops other canker entering and taking hold. It has a inbred, own resistance.
Pigeons treated often and with say remedy - especially willy - nilly destroy this necessary element. Maybe then it is a / becomes a problem of their own making.
Too many ailments today in our birds are treated for umpteen things other than what they have caused 'A deep rooted Canker'!


Many time we all hear 'Gosh paid good money for HIS birds... they came ill / diseased etc. and fell apart... even contaminated my birds' etc. It is really because pigeons ALL carry a ailment or such and are immune to it. All lofts have such. So swapping lofts with birds today because of this. Poor constitution and immunities.
The quicker I could / would get any such thing in my loft the better.
For a fact it WAS only new introductions that went off colour for a while in my loft. I let them get on with it. Lost 5 in 30 years. No never let any suffer needlessly.