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 Building an Immunity

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Daz
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PostSubject: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:41 am

A thought on.
As we all know, the reality of immunity is that whether administered, or caught from environment / contact from other pigeons - All creatures and human it is the same.
It also means sometimes they / we need help.
Prevention eave is a good thing... Garlic is good for many obvious reasons.
But to treat in hope that they may have caught something - especially willy - Nilly - doesn't give our birds any hope at all of getting an immunity.

My mum often related a story regards a lad from a very earlier age was always at the doctors. Slightest sniff and he was there etc. Everything washed with Dettol, etc. etc. This went on for a few years, and cost her a few bob of course as it was before the NHS was formed.
One day she came out very upset regards the doctor and his attitude.

He had told her, rather abruptly saying 'For Pete's sake let him play in the muck, get filthy and play with other kids otherwise he will be a weak runt all of his life and go down with an ailment at the drop of a hat forever and forever ill'!

How true. So I know I can't stop any illness coming to my pigeons, whether airborne or not.
Hence the quicker it comes and goes the better. Plus they are allowed to fight it and defeat it.
This also augers well as the YOUNG BIRDS are born, or given the ability to combat it from birth! indeed Born with or given as squabs the anti dope. The immunity. Also of course the constitution is passed on!
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:51 am

Daz wrote:
A thought on.
As we all know, the reality of immunity is that whether administered, or caught from environment / contact from other pigeons - All creatures and human it is the same.
It also means sometimes they / we need help.
Prevention eave is a good thing... Garlic is good for many obvious reasons.
But to treat in hope that they may have caught something - especially willy - Nilly - doesn't give our birds any hope at all of getting an immunity.

My mum often related a story regards a lad from a very earlier age was always at the doctors. Slightest sniff and he was there etc. Everything washed with Dettol, etc. etc. This went on for a few years, and cost her a few bob of course as it was before the NHS was formed.
One day she came out very upset regards the doctor and his attitude.

He had told her, rather abruptly saying 'For Pete's sake let him play in the muck, get filthy and play with other kids otherwise he will be a weak runt all of his life and go down with an ailment at the drop of a hat forever and forever ill'!

How true. So I know I can't stop any illness coming to my pigeons, whether airborne or not.
Hence the quicker it comes and goes the better. Plus they are allowed to fight it and defeat it.
This also augers well as the YOUNG BIRDS are born, or given the ability to combat it from birth! indeed Born with or given as squabs the anti dope. The immunity. Also of course the constitution is passed on!
Like you Daz I suggest when young etc Smile Smile if we saw a puddle we would have jumped in it for the sheer joy factor as such. These days, most would step around it unfortunately being afraid of getting designer shoes/clothes dirty I suspect Wink Wink. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:41 pm

never mess with them in the off season anyway ...you should not need to be fair but I do worm after the moult before pairing and vaccinate else leave well alone if all is good...cant see the sense in treating before pairing and ruining the microflora/good bacteria that's been built up ,crazy just crazy to me
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:04 pm

Have said hundreds of times, young birds are taken from the parents when too young, wrote in the BHW not yesterday but 45 years ago.

The immunity is passed on from the parents if the parents have an established immunity to certain illnesses etc;

In my opinion it is more established through the parents feeding etc; as well as geneticaly.


Same as breast feeding.


Never took young away as the whole lot lived together and I never had any health problems.


Nature tells you nearly everything you need to know, not the experts and money mad.



Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:51 pm

Building an immunity to what ? those who don't treat for youngbird sickness what immunity to they build up?
Don't treat let good old nature take its coarse lose 50% or more watch them 1 by 1 go in a corner vacating multi coloured
crap until they die.
Makes no difference if your treating every other week blind or have never treat they get it.
Who vaccinates wild birds for bird flu ? no one but they can still get it.
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:39 pm

Might be co-incidence? But the fanciers who I know that say "I never worm/canker/respo/cocci or treat for anything" just let them get over ailments (and I believe them) are the ones without cards at the end of each season. Same ones say never get YB sickness but strangely pack in racing after a couple of races and you see their batches just a fraction of what they were leading up to YB racing, flying around like old crows. Not advocating pumping pigeons full of crap but you have to be on the ball, keep them right or you're an also ran, at least that's how it is round here.
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:50 pm

The art is having pigeons that are naturally healthy, I never ever had young bird sickness in my loft that manifested its self and friends could verify the fact also that I lost very few pigeons although as with all fanciers not all were the bees knees.

It does annoy a little when fanciers go against the facts because they have to treat and have all the problems, the ONLY treatment my pigeons ever got was the vaccination that compulsory and a friend and I took it in turns to pay for it..


NO worming nor any other treatment because if they had it it was no prblem to them and did not manifest its self.


I lost very few pigeons, bred very few, and could jump them 300 miles after no taining and only one 75 mile race as I did in the last year with four pigeons of 16 yearlings all of which flew one race of 70 dd miles totally without either basket training, any training whatsoever.


So if anyone thinks their methods are better just try doing the same wth their birds.


Regards.



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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:46 pm

barnie wrote:
Might be co-incidence? But the fanciers who I know that say "I never worm/canker/respo/cocci or treat for anything" just let them get over ailments (and I believe them) are the ones without cards at the end of each season. Same ones say never get YB sickness but strangely pack in racing after a couple of races and you see their batches just a fraction of what they were leading up to YB racing, flying around like old crows. Not advocating pumping pigeons full of crap but you have to be on the ball, keep them right or you're an also ran, at least that's how it is round here.
Could I maybe suggest Barnie Smile Smile on average by the end of a normal season both groups finish up in the same old place etc if flying through the whole program to the end. Medicate or non medicate Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes most are lining up to get a new supply of rings to continue on with the battler as such I would suggest Smile Smile. End of the day  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes how does one actually define the medication issue, is it some thing that has a pigeon on a bottle/packet which ones gives ones birds or some thing you maybe just grow for the enjoyment factor  bounce  bounce or maybe even buy at your local chemist/supermarket as such Smile  Smile. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:52 am

If a person thinks his pigeons need medication to compete then he should medicate. Vaccinate. Whatever. It is up to each individual to treat or not treat his birds. Ones who treat win many races. Also the opposite natural method. Most wins are with widowhood cocks/hens. Outnumber natural flying pigeons. Also many are treated. Each to their own.
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:51 am

Some people think its still the 1960 when very few treat for anything as there wasn't the access to meds.
Wonder how many of the don't treat and natural immunity brigade has had the FLU JAB. confused
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:23 am

The trouble is fieldwalker, in the 60s and previously our pigeons did not have all the present problems.

Every problem has a cause and the clinical and preventative curative brigade have a lot to answer for.


You only gain problems by miss management and keeping expensive useless pigeons to breed their like by mass treatment wether they have a problem or not ?????.

Regards.


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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:09 pm

I use a natural preventative (herbal) all year round no different thank garlic in what it does only more palatable to the birds ,I don't overcrowd they have plenty space and a dry well ventilated loft I do worm and canker when needed ,vaccinating is compulsory I never cocci the count is always low ,when racing I do canker when needed (pick it up on the transporter) I just don't need to use drugs the birds are healthy stuff like parastop prior to breeding must knock the birds natural immunity(microflora)and may get a fungal issue after such treatment and if not cleared up properly will show in the old when feeding (sour crop/candida)and pass onto the ybs in the nest they could carry this without showing for some time and I am sure this happens and gets confused with yb sickness so if guys do treat be sure to treat for candida after atb
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:43 am

Going for a flu jab this morning, I haven't got flu it's just a preventative, treating blind.
Or should I not get it and see if I can build up an immunity study study study
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 am

fieldwalker wrote:
Going for a flu jab this morning, I haven't  got flu it's  just a preventative, treating blind.
Or should I not get it and see if I can build up an immunity study study study
Be brave Wink Wink act tough etc FW Smile Smile give it a Big miss type of thing bounce bounce Unless Smile Smile you have thoughts of reaching 100 odd Smile Smile. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:21 am

Do not blame you fieldwalker, why not have all the jabs available, there must be numerous different ones you could partake of one cannot be too careful.

But the side effects could be worse than the problem in some cases.


Having the flue jab is not treating blind, the nurses in our town have very good eyesight.


Regards.



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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:21 am

vaccinations work in a completely different manor they are given so the immune system can react to the specific pathogen within the vaccine usually a dead vaccine like the flu jab give a vaccine when theirs an underlying problem and you or the birds will have a bad reaction if all is well when giving the vaccine their should not be a problem that's why fanciers treat for paratyphoid for 10 days in the water before vaccinating against it I would only use the vaccines I had to forget the rest jmo
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:08 pm

fieldwalker wrote:
Building an immunity to what ? those who don't treat for youngbird sickness what immunity to they build up?
Don't treat let good old nature take its coarse lose 50% or more watch them 1 by 1 go in a corner vacating multi coloured
crap until they die.
Makes no difference if your treating every other week blind or have never treat they get it.
Who vaccinates wild birds for bird flu ? no one but they can still get it.

I have never had Y/b sickness. Fact! Like very many others who haven't. The amazing thing here is that many believe any and everyone has / gets it …
Makes me smile when 1. I hear that they have cured it every years... but then the  old birds get it again, Also more importantly the youngsters that they have bred. 2 Why they go along with that... accept it BECAUSE ALL get it rot and tripe and NEVER ask why!
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Sorry Barnie:

Might be co-incidence? But the fanciers who I know that say "I never worm/canker/respo/cocci or treat for anything" just let them get over ailments (and I believe them) are the ones without cards at the end of each season.
…… that is codswallop of the highest degree and bears no truth whatsoever … only a lame crutch to make excuses WHY they and another get young birds sickness etc. etc.

Same ones say never get YB sickness but strangely pack in racing after a couple of races and you see their batches just a fraction of what they were leading up to YB racing, flying around like old crows. Not advocating pumping pigeons full of crap but you have to be on the ball, keep them right or you're an also ran, at least that's how it is round here.
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:24 pm

Again Barnie sorry:


Same ones say never get YB sickness but strangely pack in racing after a couple of races and you see their batches just a fraction of what they were leading up to YB racing, flying around like old crows. Not advocating pumping pigeons full of crap but you have to be on the ball, keep them right or you're an also ran, at least that's how it is round here.

Maybe those many that don't get it Don't tell you and smile to them selves.
I've never got ever Y/B sickness. Ask any one in the 3 clubs I flew in. Ask any of them regards my birds conditions, ( It was my condition of poor health that held them back , and work commitments that held them back of past few years)

I also would send youngster in the second race at 140 miles first time in the basket. Also in past years send yearlings first time in basket 150 - 200 miles And get great results Fact. The years never actually won first time like that... but were mainly in top 6 every time.

Those that had my pigeons given to them this season posted that they were in superb condition etc. No canker treatment etc. etc. Just the Parvo jabs.

Now as Hal can tell you, in Canada many jab the youngsters Twice in the nest AND AGAIN WITHIN THEM BEING 3 MONTHS OLD.
Indeed Gordon Chalmbers wrote much on this score, and also much other. I have Emails from him on many aspects ... Not least before any treatment he reconmended a Parvo shot! said this cured much.
the sad truth is that many are at a loss regards y/b sickness and hence take solance in the mythg of 'Well EVERYONE else gets it) Maybe, just maybe they should ask WHY me and NOT others! Simple truth I'm afraid.
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:05 pm

Daz wrote:
Again Barnie sorry:


Same ones say never get YB sickness but strangely pack in racing after a couple of races and you see their batches just a fraction of what they were leading up to YB racing, flying around like old crows. Not advocating pumping pigeons full of crap but you have to be on the ball, keep them right or you're an also ran, at least that's how it is round here.

Maybe those many that don't get it Don't tell you and smile to them selves.
I've never got ever Y/B sickness.  Ask any one in the 3 clubs I flew in. Ask any of them regards my birds conditions, ( It was my condition of poor health that held them back , and work commitments that held them back of past few years)

I also would send youngster in the second race at 140 miles first time in the basket. Also  in past years send yearlings first time in basket 150 - 200 miles And get great results Fact. The years never actually won first time like that... but were mainly in top 6 every time.

Those that had my pigeons given to them this season posted that they were in superb condition etc. No canker treatment etc. etc. Just the Parvo jabs.

Now as Hal can tell you, in Canada many jab the youngsters Twice in the nest AND AGAIN WITHIN THEM BEING 3 MONTHS OLD.
Indeed Gordon Chalmbers wrote much on this score, and also much other. I have Emails from him on many aspects ... Not least before any treatment he reconmended a Parvo shot! said this cured much.
the sad truth is that many are at a loss regards y/b sickness and hence take solance in the mythg of 'Well EVERYONE else gets it) Maybe, just maybe they should ask WHY me and NOT others! Simple truth I'm afraid.
Daz Smile Smile For me, the interesting  part with your whole YBS issue there etc bounce bounce is, we have had thousands of imports come in down here over the last 25 odd years from the mother land as such & it has never ever been of any concern what so ever on average Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes & so like you Smile Smile one maybe could also ask, why it is so Wink Wink. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:42 am

Daz Smile Smile For me, the interesting part with your whole YBS issue there etc bounce bounce is, we have had thousands of imports come in down here over the last 25 odd years from the mother land as such & it has never ever been of any concern what so ever on average Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes & so like you Smile Smile one maybe could also ask, why it is so Wink Wink. cheers"
I do not know. I suspect many use meds regularly? Climate I would assume.
As Daz says, jabbing birds and giving meds are prevelant here. Personally I do not, have not done it for very many years. I am happy with my birds. I am the only one they have to please!
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:20 am

halcanada wrote:
Daz Smile Smile For me, the interesting  part with your whole YBS issue there etc bounce bounce is, we have had thousands of imports come in down here over the last 25 odd years from the mother land as such & it has never ever been of any concern what so ever on average Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes & so like you Smile Smile one maybe could also ask, why it is so Wink Wink. cheers"
I do not know. I suspect many use meds regularly? Climate I would assume.
As Daz says, jabbing birds and giving meds are prevelant here. Personally I do not, have not done it for very many years. I am happy with my birds. I am the only one they have to please!
Only jab they get here Hal  Smile  Smile in my back yard is for the PMV etc. Pox & if ever Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes we get a vaccine for the Rota virus issue, will not be of any concern for me with the wallet factor as such bounce bounce as it will not diminish in weight type of thing here Wink Wink. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:28 am

Hal, you have had many come down with Many things, and the y/b sickness etc. and etc. And so have we, and most other nations.
However many lofts, very many haven't and don't!

It is easy therefor to tar all with the same brush! Indeed make it a foresaid thing and happening in most eyes.

However it is a great unmerited insult to tar those that haven't or don't get / have it. Many done get many other ailments that many do!

But to insult, and call 'LIARS' and poor fanciers enblock does the so call sport a grave injustice and tarnishing of many undeservedly so.

'Ok I get so and so, and many I know do also, so all do, other wise thay are liars'!
Then pour scorn somewhat via saying 'They finish each year bottom of the races and results'
-Some may do! BUT then of cousre the vast majority by far are those that do get it!

It is just a lame crutch / excuse to wash over to help with their frustration at having no answer ( A naturally mite envious to to boot too).
So for wahtever reason say many fanciers DON'T get y/b sickness and many 'Remedies' don't work- whilst others seemingly do, THEY are a miff! Yes instead of asking, tryng to find out why, they black ball and call those fortunately enough NOT to get it.

It was in 1998 when Fancier recomended a handful of garden lime chucked in the drinker, stirred and left over night would ensure no Y/B sickness. This was done via nigh all, and for 3 -4 year no one got it! Then it was left off by many ... by coicidence many then did etc.
Maybe the sickness gather pace and strength over time... I know, nor care not.

Later I looked into lime and what it does. It crushes and it is very good regards keeping a calming in the pigeons. No stress etc.
Bu8t then again I made a thick solution of lime and painted EVERY bit of the loft.

Before that I saturated it in Bleach. Then blow torched it all. I filling in then every knot hole crack or cranny. Twice over!
Later due to ill health and scraping was a hard burden I used deep little. Also I rubbed in lime on the floors. I would then replace 70 / 80 of the deep litter often, leaving the over cover in droppings. I always rubbed lime well into the nest boxes. Would use a 'Chinese Chalk artound the bowls. To[ Bottom and rims. Also Drwe lines on the perches.
What may have been working, or not, was irrelevant! It meant doing the prep and time consuming true. BUT I never had birds going down from Y/b bird sickness or oat else.
then after my endeavors and hard oftyen and consuming work to be called a liar not only insults me BUT very many others.

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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:03 pm

That is the whole trouble Daz, because they have all the problems, mainly self inflicted by bad management, and the use of unnatural means, they cannot understand it that others have no similar
problems.

For as long as I can remember I had NO health problems other than the odd going light (solved easily by the only remedy I kept and used, the Old Hand White Tablets.)


Some well known fanciers are now coming round to what I have been preaching for over 50 years, you cannot interfere with nature and not have dire consequences.


Keep everything as natural as possible and the bright will shine and the less able more easily identified.


Muck about with all the nonsense and ?????.


Regards.



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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:47 pm

True Misty.
I could name many as such, but to take just one 'Canker' and what it did and was before the money boys advertised via 'Names' that probably never even had heard of, started advertising. Hence Canker quickly over came these so - call must haves and became far, far stronger and hence harder for those willing to waste their' money - it makes them feel good, as if 'Doing' the right thing for their birds and not needlessly lining unscrupulous money making cons.
Yes a match stick was some times used...
I haven't treated for canker etc. and many other rubbish for tears. Like you and I stated earlier, going light which in it's self is often just a normal happening.
Back to canker, the more one uses a 'Cure' the stronger the strain. Most don't realise that you have never to use the same product more than twice... Yet swear by it every year 2 or 3 times lol.
Sadly now it has been causing problems becoming deep rooted and nigh impossible to shift. Too harm needlessly our birds and make others rich! Yes many treat for various ailments as such NOT even realising it is a deep rooted Canker. Costs me nothing hardly to keep my birds healthy and in great condition. Indeed Just a race or two to get the 'Super Form'!


How one wishes that they were 22 again eh!

P.s. When one can't, or for what ever don't wish to or want to understand they ridicule and scoff at those that do. The fibs and miss quoted ruses are. I believe , scandalous.
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PostSubject: Re: Building an Immunity   

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Building an Immunity
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