Just Weaned First Round of 2019 YBs

All treating on a random basis does, Hal, is cover up problems not solve them.

Never treated for anything other than compulsory one.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Would be very interesting how they race so many pigeons, having only bred at the most 24 young a year I cannot imagine having to deal with so many, and how do they contend with those left at the end of the season.

All fanciers have a choice of how they approach the sport but it is interesting to learn what others do.

Regards.

You just have a different mindset I suggest Misty     to what I call the chook farmer brigade as such . Suspect both groups love their birds in fact I know it, but just in a different way/manner type of thing . Management structure is some what different thou. But do know if our Ray thinks along the same lines of what farmers do when loading cattle for the market on a large scale, he could just about have his little flock loaded up & away on a toss in about the same time as it would take you to handle your team of 24 odd on average there. Also on the feed scenario its easy easy when your like our Ray one just carts the bags into the loft "forget the tin thing" & then opens them for all there to mix & match with the different grains/bags maybe I suggest . Same maybe with treat day       for our Ray with the peanut thing     he just throws the odd bag or 2 into the loft & all will be happy, happy I suspect there     maybe    .

ours have been vaccinated(compulsory) and wormed with moxidectin .ready to pair now but holding out for another 2 weeks ,they are very well in themselves ,I like to use moxidectin as it kills any bloodsucker,air sac mites and also of course worms jmo atb

oldstrain wrote:

ours have been vaccinated(compulsory) and wormed with moxidectin .ready to pair now but holding out for another 2 weeks ,they are very well in themselves ,I like to use moxidectin as it kills any bloodsucker,air sac mites and also of course worms jmo atb

Good stuff O/S plenty of spare time now I suggest etc to visit Geordie land there now & help our Ray out with his work load with his new champs as such. Vaccination issue should bring much joy I suspect maybe worth while taking the little along to see how the other half lives with their birds & get an idea of the future     after Brexit     maybe.

What Future, Knackered??????.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

What Future, Knackered??????.


Regards.

There has to be a future I suggest etc Misty . Trump is holding Armageddon back type of thing      with his new way of thinking now as such    .

Vaccination here is a compulsory rule here for all fanciers. Some clubs do it for all, some members do their own. Very few do not do it. They will not mention it though. No one asks. Doubt if any one really cares about the ones that do not on the assumption their birds will get sick.

In our club a vaccination form had to be handed in signed by two independent fanciers before you could enter races, and prior to the first race by two weeks.(or Vet)


Do not think many fanciers do not vacinate.

Regards.

I know some fanciers do not vaccinate......its easy to use the same batch number as your mate, and to get anyone to sign the form.

Then if they do not comply with the rules they should not be racing pigeons, such behavior puts good fanciers pigeons at risk, no vaccine is 100% fool proof and all should comply with the rules or have them changed.

Regards.

there are those who say the problem only came about since compulsory vaccination started........

Heard the same, David, many times, would not hazard a guess myself not knowing exactly all the facts, but nearly ALL our sports health problems originate from the continent by importing their unhealthy pigeons.

But what is a fact, my friend and I took it in turns for many years buying the vaccine and neither he nor I never had YBS, when many club members did.

Think the problem is a mixture of miss management, feed, clinical conditions, preventative and curative treatments etc;

All drugs have side effects, just try SATINS just one example, lowers collesteral but the pain kills you.

Regards.

David wrote:

I know some fanciers do not vaccinate......its easy to use the same batch number as your mate, and to get anyone to sign the form.

shock horror etc. Not pigeon flyers David     surely. Last week here I heard a story about one of the deciple/preacher types of some repute, who preaches the peasants must do 2 jabs for the Rota issue vaccine when it becomes available here. Strange thing is he apparently only gives one shot for the PMV issue "being a chook farmer" which by law is supposed to be 2 as such here . Now     just wonder also, if Hal's scrubbers in his barn there     survive like my park type mongrels do     who are always popping into my place for a visit & a free feed with the PMV issue as such there    .

halcanada wrote:

Vaccination here is a compulsory rule here for all fanciers. Some clubs do it for all, some members do their own. Very few do not do it. They will not mention it though. No one asks. Doubt if any one really cares about the ones that do not on the assumption their birds will get sick.

yes exactly...had a friend who sent stock to a race that were never vaccinated on return he had paramixo outbreak ,running the gauntlet if you don't do it jmo

MISTY wrote:

Heard the same, David, many times, would not hazard a guess myself not knowing exactly all the facts, but nearly ALL our sports health problems originate from the continent by importing their unhealthy pigeons.

But what is a fact, my friend and I took it in turns for many years buying the vaccine and neither he nor I never had YBS, when many club members did.

Think the problem is a mixture of miss management, feed, clinical conditions, preventative and curative treatments etc;

All drugs have side effects, just try SATINS just one example, lowers collesteral but the pain kills you.

Regards.

I think its down to over medicating before pairing ...ramming parastop or similar down their necks before pairing and not clearing any fungal issue caused by the antibiotic treatment ,then the parents pass it onto the young ,a lot of pigeon men have no idea what they are giving and just follow like sheep because mr national winner says its what he does I very rarely hear or read about treating for candida after antibiotic use ...had the sickness the first 2 years I kept pigeons and this was the only time I had treated with antibiotic before pairing ...since I stopped the nonsense the birds have been fine the odd one has been culled but generally in very good health ,anything in it or am I just lucky

Not luck, oldstrain, common sense.

My friend who I have corresponded with over the years, Richard Boylin, has just written a long article in the BHW which encompasses all that I have said over the years.

Well worth a read.


Regards.

will have to re-order the bhw soon in the off season its mostly birds for sale and their pretty pictures atb

As I have mentioned before. Vaccines are for flock and herd treatments. With pigeons it is a different scenario. Any flier should have the option to vaccinate or treat at his discretion. Up to him. He knows his birds. Take the chance of sickness or not? Good healthy birds for the most part do not get sick. If they do they get lost racing, recover, or get nuked. Compulsory vaccination is bullshit. However, without it many fliers would get sick birds and quit.

halcanada wrote:

As I have mentioned before.  Vaccines are for flock and herd treatments. With pigeons it is a different scenario. Any flier should have the option to vaccinate or treat at his discretion. Up to him. He knows his birds. Take the chance of sickness or not? Good healthy birds for the most part do not get sick. If they do they get lost racing, recover, or get nuked. Compulsory vaccination is bullshit. However, without it many fliers would get sick birds and quit.

Agree about the bullsh*t scenario Hal One requires a legal statuary document here for the PMV etc to race, signed by a legal type etc Fascial type of thing I would suggest as I have this picture of a poor pigeon flyer up before a judge & then given a life sentence I'm   for not following the letter of the law in relation to his pigeons with the PMV issue    . Must also add     the case before he got life as such, was a bunch of Sudanese thugs       who caused major damage & trauma to the local types     but they all walked free on the day     as the judge said they were just mis-understood youths & one must show them all compassion to roam free & just do as they so choose as such    .  

If you have rules then you abide by them or suffer the consequences.

No rules, mayhem.

Bad rules, mayhem.

It is not, I believe, fanciers who decide rules with regard to threats to all animal life but DEFRA.

With regard to any other treatment or husbandry it is up to the individual.

But the compulsory vaccine has no side effects of any consequence that are obvious as far as I and my friend are concerned, both used it since it was made compulsory and neither ever had any ybs, and in my case no other illnesses of any consequence.

But you also have to take into consideration what some fanciers are putting down their pigeons throats and spraying their lofts with etc;


Maybe fanciers having problems should be doing some self analysis before anything else.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

If you have rules then you abide by them or suffer the consequences.

No rules, mayhem.

Bad rules, mayhem.

It is not, I believe, fanciers who decide rules with regard to threats to all animal life but DEFRA.

With regard to any other treatment or husbandry it is up to the individual.

But the compulsory vaccine has no side effects of any consequence that are obvious as far as I and my friend are concerned, both used it since it was made compulsory and neither ever had any ybs, and in my case no other illnesses of any consequence.

But you also have to take into consideration what some fanciers are putting down their pigeons throats and spraying their lofts with etc;
 

Maybe fanciers having problems should be doing some self analysis before anything else.


Regards.  

Misty I don't quite see, the relation ship etc     between giving a pigeon a PMV type shot & young bird sickness type of thing as posted. Most vaccines have an approval sticker attached in some form or the other I suspect & if given for the intended purpose as such & in the proper manner, they should not have any effect on healthy type pigeons I suggest . Unhealthy pigeons completely different ball game, sadly from my perspective here.

Agree Knackered, regarding individual treatment that is meant for a specific ailment, but I mean flock treatment as a preventative with no obvious reason to do so, along with all the aids to success etc;


Many fanciers have blamed the compulsary vacine for YBS, I am jusy pointing out that I and my friend have used it for years and never had any trouble as have many other fanciers.

It could be that the compulsary vacine is not compatable with other things being done to the pigeon.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Agree Knackered, regarding individual treatment that is meant for a specific ailment, but I mean flock treatment as a preventative with no obvious reason to do so, along with all the aids to success etc;


Many fanciers have blamed the compulsary vacine for YBS, I am jusy pointing out that I and my friend have used it for years and never had any trouble as have many other fanciers.

It could be that the compulsary vacine is not compatable with other things being done to the pigeon.


Regards.

Ok But we both know we now live in a blame, blame type of world as such Misty I suggest when things go wrong on the local type scene. Self responsibility has gone out the door for many on average I suspect these days, unfortunately.

was a user of oils on the corn but can they be trusted ,have they been transported and kept at the correct temperature throughout the process...I know one guy who has a old dustbin and mixes a few bags of corn with a whole bottle of oil just an example of something daft that could sicken the pigeons...I no longer use them...just good corn and a pellet and oregano in the drinker its easier and the birds look and act very well on it ,pigeon fanciers are their own worst enemy when it comes to dabbling in products I am glad I got out of the habit...only 3 products I rate and use avidress,oregano,kilpatricks black iodised minerals the rest I have used were just gimmicks I don't mind the all in one grit and mineral treat but very expensive and much cheaper to make your own ,that's my tilt on the product merry go round anyway

Only things I used, oldstrain, was garlic, black minerals {coal dust) and lime.

Sometimes hung up a small bag of aniseed to enhance the atmosphere to the pigeons liking.


Never had any health problems and no complaint regarding their performances.

But if fanciers want to waist their money and are content with their lot who am I to tell them otherwise?.


Regards.