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MISTY
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PostSubject: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 10:06 am

No, not a two headed pheasant but a sport where there are numerous contentious matters.

I know we have discussed mob flying previously but It was brought to mind when seeing fanciers with a range of trophies and then looking into the fanciers circumstances.


Some send as many as 100 to a race, another may send 6 to the same race, the former WINS 1st and second and the trophy and all the glamour, the other fancier wins 3rd place.


The latter has beaten 98 of the formers pigeons and the former only 6 of the the latter's.


Come the end of the season and the mob flyer can sell all his/her rubbish based on the performances of just a very small number of pigeons that have WON.


The fancier can also place a few good pigeons to advantaged fanciers to enhance his/her reputation.


I have always been of the opinion it is how you win that matters, would never want to win by advantage.


The only fair way is for fanciers to send the same number of pigeons to a race and I also know that to do so would need drastic changes but could also be less costly for the less well off and reduce the advantages of the money mad and win at any cost brigade.


Regards.

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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 10:16 am

I agree up to the point of the last paragraph as it would cripple the sport with costs the mob flyers are needed by those who send far less birds ,there are those that send big birdage and seek no gain through sales so these people can be and indeed are still principled people but I do get where yer coming from misty but we cant have our cake and eat it so to speak ,I like to give birds away for others to try it sorts your own loft out and gives someone a chance to compare to their own as it really takes a few nests to sort through your best breeders as not every bird is a champ...but in the end certain pairs speak for themselves atb
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 11:34 am

Some send as many as 100 to a race,... Frank Tasker over 200 to Nationals.
Another household name sends 700 birds every week to the races.

Costs! Well they sale the culls at elaborate prices etc. and that more than pays their' dues... Indeed nice little earners.
many have even moved to the East, or even more Easterly locations

I mean, let's get real here do the punters, the followers, really believe their guff? that they are truly buying from direct proven birds? Yes some are / do... the rest lol.
I mean just how many do they sale in a year? ! LET ALONE HOW MANY WINNERS DO THEY HAVE? !
I mean how many times do we read about that great back garden loft that house no more the 15 pairs! Then they are selling galore world wide and have all studs promoting and selling!
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 12:08 pm

If the mob flier sends mainly no-hopers then a good small team man has nothing to worry about. If a good flier sends a lot of pigeons better than anyone else's pigeons then he will take the share of prizes.
There's a difference between a mob flier and a good flier who keeps a lot of good pigeons, but numbers will have the edge to some point I do agree. As does personal finances.
When it comes to buying, if fanciers buy pigeons without doing their homework first, then they only got themselves to blame.
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Daz
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 1:34 pm

A sensible reply and thought there Barnie.
Which brings back the thoughts: A. Why would they keep the ones that don't shine? It takes time and effort, plus money to do so.
and B. When and how do they decide to get shot off.

Was at Frank Taskers one Sat afternoon. He'd sent 79 youngsters - and as I've posted before, he timed all he could in - Against the promises he'd given to the club members when applying to join the club - then said to me and Bill Butterfield - C.U. President a the time - My aim, is to have timed in all 79 birds before anyone else has one!

I feel that that is a poor aim in retrospect of the members and sport in general. Ok it takes one to win … and beaten by loft mate(s) - I personally never cared less regards how many a fancier sends. It meant cheaper costs for me and others a they paid their way.

Now Frank also said to me that Aurther Beardsmore was the best person he had ever known in regards getting a single pigeon race fit and conditioned to win! HE was a class flyer no doubt.
Best I ever knew regards getting a single one to win … 2nd national was Jimmy White from Pentland … sadly no longer with us.

Ok Mike Gilbert sent one to an international and won. He stated he toyed with the idea of turning around at every round about.... but was glad he didn't lol.




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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 2:04 pm

Agree Daz, they time as many as possible to say in their adverts and sales brochures " beaten by loftmates"  makes them more attractive to the would be purchaser.  
So if a bird was beaten by 70 plus loftmates and possibly 100 or more other entries is worth buying?? Not for me but others maybe think so.
These days it's much easier to do your homework before buying, information available on the internet, race results, birdage, numbers entered, friends on social media, forums like this even.

What I think might go on is established fanciers at the top of their game with maybe not so fashionable strains, buy some latest must have racing machines full of hype. Whatever wins is suddenly off the new imports and followed by pigeons for sale, give the buyers what they think they want or think they are getting. But they don't get rid of the old established birds do they?? Very Happy Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 2:39 pm

Quote ' What I think might go on is established fanciers at the top of their game with maybe not so fashionable strains, buy some latest must have racing machines full of hype. Whatever wins is suddenly off the new imports and followed by pigeons for sale, give the buyers what they think they want or think they are getting. But they don't get rid of the old established birds do they??

Very, very true. Two examples. One fancier was winning with a certain breed, they did more than well. However he had brought in, big time another strain … which he advertised was doing the winning.  That's very true.

Another very good friend of mine mentioned to another so  - called top flyer, that he never gave his' birds any credit for what they were achieving for him. The come back answer was simply 'of course not, they would then BUY off you, and besides I am only selling from my old stock and not yours''!  He was more than upset when my mate said 'Fine, but you won't be getting any more from me'.


had a decent flyer here about that sold from his 8 pairs all over Scotland and England and Wales. Mind two brothers, and mates of him, had stables full of pigeons that never raced... just bred

Sad to say we all know it happens, indeed is common. Often said 'The best birds I ever had were given off a mate'. Again birds are only as good as honest is the fancier you are getting them from. If you get on well and have a good repore, fine. To me that is and was every thing.
That Mr Robinson of Scarborough ( I think it was Frank, but no overly sure there) was as straight and as good and honest a fancier I ever knew and had birds from. Mind at time was more than a little peeved with him lol.
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 4:35 pm

It has always been a bone of contention regarding mob flying.

I think the continentals have the right idea, which I have in the past suggested we adopt, they have to nominate so many by them being the first on the race sheet, say 6 0r 12 etc; the others are just trainers.


You only need to ETS the number nominated so that the ETS is not being full of none nominated pigeons.


I think we all know all the problems what we have not done is address them


Of course some of the mob flyers help others they are usually those in a position to enhance their reputation and then sell all the rubbish to the fancy in general,


Not all, but most.


It would be very interesting to know just how many they sell and how many do any good for the ordinary fancier.


Matters not who is concerned the vast majority bred by any fancier is average and some poor with the odd one or two the real goods. the majority should be culled and not sold on.


Have known every fancier in our area for over 60 year, cannot place a Robinson, other than the one who lived near me and died a short time ago, offered me any of his pigeons I wanted.



Regards.

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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 5:40 pm

MISTY wrote:
It has always been a bone of contention regarding mob flying.

I think the continentals have the right idea, which I have in the past suggested we adopt, they have to nominate so many by them being the first on the race sheet, say 6 0r 12 etc; the others are just trainers.


You only need to ETS the number nominated so that the ETS is not being full of none nominated pigeons.


I think we all know all the problems what we have not done is address them


Of course some of the mob flyers help others they are usually those in a position to enhance their reputation and then sell all the rubbish to the fancy in general,


Not all, but most.


It would be very interesting to know just how many they sell and how many do any good for the ordinary fancier.


Matters not who is concerned the vast majority bred by any fancier is average and some poor with the odd one or two the real goods. the majority should be culled and not sold on.


Have known every fancier in our area for over  60 year, cannot place a Robinson, other than the one who lived near me and died a short time ago, offered me any of his pigeons I wanted.



Regards.

 
Not quite sure, sadly Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes how to reply on this subject etc Smile Smile Utopia bounce bounce may just be Wink Wink the only place where by one could find the answer/solution, maybe I suspect. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 6:38 pm

I have no problems flying against mob fliers. Have beat them in the past. So have others. But again, selling pigeons due to some methods mentioned to me is a Buyer Beware situation.
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySat Feb 23, 2019 7:55 pm

I personally have nothing against anyone sending as many as they wish, if a fancier sends 100 at least 75 will be average and easily beatable, 20 above average and possibly the others worth keeping.


Never worried me how many anyone sent beat them more times than not.


That is not the point, what worries me is how the sport looks to a prospective new starter.



Old time fanciers know the score, but that which attracted me to the sport has been continually eroded and needs to be replaced with up to date attractions and mob flyers are not one.



Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptySun Feb 24, 2019 9:51 pm

Daz, can you remember where Mr Robinson lived, it could be that he was in a partnership, the one I knew lived in Barrowcliffe and had to pack in for ill health and offered all his birds free, he was a gentleman.


Regards.

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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptyMon Feb 25, 2019 2:09 pm

Yes he was in a partnership. In fact had a pair of his partner to make up to 10 - was going to be a dozen. A mealy and a red.

Said he packed up (Twice) First time because of politic and moans as he did well. Then second time was health related. Said that he had bred some for the Skibeen - spelling (Ireland?) - and they had done well. had kept some back because they wanted some more. It was a y/b stray that came in that first introduced us. I sent it back twice. third time he said it seemed to want to stay at mine.

I said I was starting up again in conversation and he offered to breed me a dozen … was a few years older than me. I was 47 at the time. A silver haired well spoken gent. Had a big garden as I remember.
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptyMon Feb 25, 2019 3:22 pm

Thanks, Daz, thought I had the right guy, not the one I dealt with, but as I recall a lot of jealousy was around at the time, come to think of it nothings changed.


Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: S trange Game    S trange Game  EmptyTue Feb 26, 2019 10:26 am

Had / have the impression his former partner continued for a spell. Certainly had a friend still racing / keeping. But that was as it was just an impression. I still often relate what he said in the short time we spoke. Believe every thing he said had merit and was proven true  regards keeping and racing pigeons.

No airs or graces, just spoke how it was, …  Mind wasn't a happy chappie on way home. A mite upset in fact … But every word came true. Think he had made a good living and was comfortable.
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