how much would you pay?

been thinking of bringing in some birds as most of my stock are clacking on a bit now, but looking at some of the auctions (woodruff bros/syndicate lofts ) the prices for y/b on these auctions are pricey or am i just tight? if they were proven breeders i can understand but most are grandchildren....and they say the sport is dying

I suppose it depends on how close you want to get to the tree and what distance you want to fly it seems today the sprint birds are fetching good money if I was going to bring birds in I would go to the fancier and talk to him and look at his birds and if you like them buy um

silly prices but probably 2 of the best sources for ybs today ,woodroffe bros a great racing loft to and peter fox has to be one of the best studmen in the uk without doubt and this has not gone un-noticed amongst fanciers looking to purchase,besides the studs are fewer now eh ,personally i would rather a well bred grandchild as a yb than a older pigeon that would be difficult to fly out and best days behind them ,also with a well bred yb you may hit the jackpot eh but always nice to see a successful racer close by in the pedigree eh ...good luck rog remember santa be here soon

I thought about a weeks wages tops to pay for a bird, depends on your wages though.

My advice is get on the RP auction site now on the Hammond and Webster pigeons still a few hours left, look at pigeons off Snake and the old SU hen, Syndicate lofts, children and grandchildren of Fast and Furious, triple X , Martin Ali, and the vandenabeeles that never really got tried out. Realistic prices for real racing pigeons not paper pigeons. pm me if you want more info.

Looking at the prices asked for unproven pigeons, often bred from none performers 
just because one or two in the loft has  done well appears a not too bright idea.

When looking at prices I thought they are way over the top, but on checking what I paid for some 50- 60 years ago I got a suprize when looking at the calculator for inflation between then and now.

On checking my records I  paid £100 or more for a pigeon that was either a brother or sister to a proven breeder on occasions, today that would be well over £1000,00, however I think China has now set the stakes higher and stupid prices have resulted, does not make the pigeon any better.

I do not think now anyone would sell there proven pigeons so choose where you go you take your chance.

No one has a loft full of either breeders or racers, they are lucky to have half a dozen.

The biggest stud full of both performers and breeders ( by other people) have only a very small number of winners reported and millions of pigeons have been bred.

So you just have to take your chance.

If the ones you have have done you proud I would have thought that their would be at least a few breeders amongst their young over a reasonable period of time, and a winning family established, starting again is a gamble. 

Regards.

I have bought in one or two over the years. Not expensive ones. Peds do not fly. They are just an indicator of potential. Mine are red/mealies or white. 1 BC hen. Of course they are inbred. Tmaks reds had 15 years or more. They perform so why get others? Cross with a white Delbar hen are what I have now. As you all know, some will go to a one lofter. Faith and hope.
Cocks driving hens now. Eggs in a few days. They do not go out now.

2 flyer mentioned there fly in our section   one in my club/fed and 2 fantastic flyers they are . We used to buy ybs from anywhere but now do our homework and it certainly pays off

all good comments lads, pigeons here get more chances than harry kane, i have to be careful what i bring in as i cant cull healthy birds, just the way it is, we all know lads that are flying well and some are more generous than others, umpteen birds get moved on every year doesn't matter who they from, the vast majority are sh**e, it is a difficult decision in my eyes who to go to this time as these old un's have done me well, and thankfully some of their kids are breeding good un's so may choose to sit with them for awhile.......

Stick with it lads and hope it pays off, winning  with home bred adds to the enjoyent.

Regards.

I, fortunately, bought, given, good birds from 6 very good fanciers. All renowned.
 Their biggest worry, if bought, was that I'd tell others the price I paid. Which i never did.
Once, by Frank Bristow, I was offered a complete round of eggs - 50 - to place under my birds. A. i didn't have enough pairs to cover, and B. Many gave excuses regards letting a pair or two be put under their birds. Others couldn't be trusted. However, I did acquired some good birds from Frank.
Jimmy White, we swapped a few. What a fancier. John Gladwin done me proud, a fine gentleman.
Bought in or swapped from 3 others. But don't know whether I should name them. Maybe.
No pigeon was ever mated to a relative, not even close.
Never had y/b sickness and birds were always in fine fettle. - Yes some took a little time to get immunity from my loft's ailment.

I believe, as having said twice on this site before, do a swap from another on here. Bring in fresh blood. I could name at least 6 'Names' on here where a good deal, or swap would be of an intelligence.

You know, regardless of ' Supposed - high prices paid reported, Many good fanciers 'Swap' birds. Give another fancier birds to test.
I remember well frank wasn't happy with a whole shed full bought in from Belgium. Was going to ...  Well another national winner visited, as oten they did, and asked if he could try them. asking 'How Much'! Next sentence said is often heard, up to who he is telling maybe, but more importantly who to! You? yes you must have a good repour with such and a trust.

'I wouldn't sell a bird not good enough for me' etc. I believe, NO! know Frank gave him the birds!
The fancier more than excelled with them.
Another little piece that maybe be of an interest, That fancier, like many other 'Names' sold 'Other' birds under a false name. Not the ones that earned the 'Fame.'
I guess, no - again - KNOW! Many that do. Even some stating 'Bred in Belgium'! When parents never been out of the fanciers loft, let alone imported from! ... Just the rings from Belgium!

Often hear tell, 'Best bird I ever had was given me by ...

For every success story there will be one as good that is entirely different in every respect from others.

There is no doubt that some fanciers already enjoying advantages also receive further help from studs and commercial means.

I had many offers of gift birds but only took up the odd one, the last one was a young bird that as yearling won Thurso and I gave it back to the fancier concerned it did not fit in with my future plans.

I also borrowed the odd pigeon from a stud.

When Bill Carney visited my loft he put a basket ready to put in any bird he thought not good enough.

He put one in the basket, it was a blue hen which had won 2nd Vaux Usher.

He said he did not believe it had.

After I purchased the pigeon ( I was always on the look out for a very good winning hen not often sold)  there was some inference that it was not genuine so I killed it in front of Bill and put it in the dust bin.

Do not think he visited many lofts that he did not condemn quite a few.

Think he was not too impressed with my methods but he could not argue with the results.

The Monday morning he visited the Lerwick race had been held over and no day birds, so I had to go and visit a site for work purposes on the Monday morning.

Got back to the office and my wife had rang to say a bird had returned just after I had left.

So I lost about two hours and lost the race by ten minutes, very few birds back.

She won the Yearling Cup.

Bill said he would  have liked her and I would have given him to her but she was just a baby and I did not want her fastened in.

Nearly every bird in my loft at that time had either won at either racing or showing.

No drugs, no tricks, open loft, top class immune system built up over several years.

Every pigeon living a happy contented life will fly its heart out to get back.

The trick in my opinion is not to send them too often as if so they may realise choose how slow they go no matter what their home will still be there.

Takes all sorts that was my way and I am sure my pigeons enjoyed their life as I feel all should do.  

Regards.

I honestly think it's also down to luck . Some top fancier selling ybs will just give you anything to get your money, but some will give you the best he can . Most of the time they will fly ok if done correctly but 99% crap . If you get a odd winner it's great but very rare . As you know we try lots of birds and I mean lots and we get most to fly well with hard work and not too many are crap . If they are really bad they go but I think now we have learned a lesson, don't just try them for the sake of it because maybe they are free ect ect , you are wasting your time. We now only go to top lofts that win win win and because of this I think we fly ok .

peel bros wrote:

I honestly think it's also down to luck . Some top fancier selling ybs will just give you anything to get your money,  but some will give you the best he can . Most of the time they will fly ok if done correctly but 99% crap . If you get a odd winner it's great but very rare . As you know we try lots of birds and I mean lots and we get most to fly well with hard work and not too many are  crap . If they are really bad they go but I think now we have learned a lesson,  don't just try them for the sake of it because maybe they are free ect ect , you are wasting your time. We now only go to top lofts that win win win and because of this I think we fly ok .

Wise words etc Ray I suggest. Thou, that being said was never my thing here for different type reasons I'm   but at the end of the day few flyers here presented a clock at the distance type of events on average over the years at pull over as I did in my time so in the end maybe it all comes back down to that old Rome type scenario once again, possible .

peel bros wrote:

I honestly think it's also down to luck . Some top fancier selling ybs will just give you anything to get your money,  but some will give you the best he can . Most of the time they will fly ok if done correctly but 99% crap . If you get a odd winner it's great but very rare . As you know we try lots of birds and I mean lots and we get most to fly well with hard work and not too many are  crap . If they are really bad they go but I think now we have learned a lesson,  don't just try them for the sake of it because maybe they are free ect ect , you are wasting your time. We now only go to top lofts that win win win and because of this I think we fly ok .

I agree 100% about the luck part and for many reasons.

The possibilities involved are too numerous to go through.

The best way I think to look at it is, if you get the pleasure you are looking for out of being involved you are  a winner.

Regards.

Of course ray. that goes without saying. However, only healthy, fit birds in race condition win races ... outside of 'Paper bag' times.

Yes healthy birds win the luck bit I meant was mostly aimed at getting the right birds if you lucky

peel bros wrote:

Yes healthy birds win the luck bit I meant was mostly aimed at getting the right birds if you lucky

Yes, without the right stuff you are well and truly handicaped.

Getting them is as you say a gamble in most instances although like you say do a bit of home work.

But then the  luck does not stop, you still need your fair share.

Regards.

Feel sorry for those 'hoodwinked' into buy culls that look magnificent ... but are only held up visl drugs/ props etc.

Likewise the 'Brushed' photo's. I also, firmly, believe that the repour between the seller and buyer counts a lot.
Had in the next street stables full of pigeons breeding. Never seen a basket, let alone a race pannier. A race! Gosh they would die instantly of shock!
Mind another fancier was selling them country wide.
1st or 2nd season I started here, I offered to take his birds for a toss. gave up, as he couldn't make his mind up, and I had to go back 2 or 3 times, and he still didn't send. these brothers, and mates of his, took his birds,

Now he told me never to mate before April, which he never did. Agreed with him.

One day, first week in April, I'd called round for some mat. Any way he had just finished putting his 8 pairs together.

The idiot said 'Gosh, been busy, just sent 42 youngsters to Scotland. 30 to Kent, and will be sending over 50 to Bristol tomorrow.! I never said a word.

I have a mate 'A national winner' that had read his results at one time a good while back. Said he'd bought in a round. I said, they didn't do you much good I'd wager'!
'Nah rubbish' he said, and laughed, I bet he got them of the church'! LOl
I laughed and told him, 'They weren't even that good'!

Very, very rarely flew other peoples young ones, just the odd one.

If you did win, as I did with one on the odd occasion you did not have the parents so of little use as breeders if you wanted to keep your own long earned family intact.

Think one of the most rewarding part of our sport is breeding your own family of winners.

Regards.

Was speaking main in regards 'Old Birds' bought for stock with breeding in mind. Youngsters for cheapness.

But then, if buying youngsters in, they would be in autumn/ late season. Rested first season then and allowed open loft to do what they like. ' - 5 C's'. Would be happy then for them first time in basket, to have two or so races.
Would observe and let them tell me.

Al Fallow, a very good flyer, and a National winner to boot told me 'Yes some youngster bought in Roly will do well... But best if left till next season'.
So these would too be left to own ends and do as they liked.
When moving to this area and starting up, so many people told me 'Albert is a great y/b flyer'. as if that was it.

Barry told me, 'He is a great flyer young or old bird'! How so very true.
Mind youngster born in his loft were split into two. One lot trained hard - up to 3 times a day -- the others left to do as they liked. (4 actually if counting the the splitting of the come back races.

We do breed our own winners but also win with a lot we buy in , maybe because we are lucky in what comes in and get their best birds or just maybe , maybe mind we can fly a pigeon.  Or we just fly a lot of birds , whatever we do ok but still thrive to do better

peel bros wrote:

We do breed our own winners but also win with a lot we buy in , maybe because we are lucky in what comes in and get their best birds or just maybe , maybe mind we can fly a pigeon.  Or we just fly a lot of birds , whatever we do ok but still thrive to do better

Everyone has their own ideas and what a dull old thing it would be if they did not.

If you win out of turn you must be doing something right and if it works for you it would be a  bit remiss to change it.

Everyone has to start one way or another and adopt a system that suits them.

I could never have handled the numbers you keep, would never have been able to observe and deal with individuals nor I feel keep them naturally healthy.

Will realy look forward to see you winning next season be as good (WELL NEARLY)  as the OLR.

Regards.

peel bros wrote:

We do breed our own winners but also win with a lot we buy in , maybe because we are lucky in what comes in and get their best birds or just maybe , maybe mind we can fly a pigeon.  Or we just fly a lot of birds , whatever we do ok but still thrive to do better

reading sheerlaken article other week, fair play he was upfront about the ammount of luck he had with birds, although he did point out he always tried to get the best, admitted his best hen was ugliest thing he ever saw and she bred some crap as well a good uns.... hard work and luck ray pretty much....

Many roads lead to Rome they say ... which may mean many don't lol

I never spout against any others way and means. Mind unless asked etc.

I feel, personally, I gave birds a good introduction as to what I expected of them. I provided Freedom, A good warm and sheltered home with safety with free feed etc.
All i asked was a means of enjoyment, and maybe a good race or two.

So once I had a settled team, - Say for two or three years, new youngster got the same as my own bred. Freedom and open loft etc.

Those that didn't like, or adjust to the system, sorted themselves out I feel. they dithered or just went. No loss. I knew/ felt those that stayed did so because they wanted to and liked my system.
Didn't see the need for tossing them. Never believed ibn 'Breaking points' etc.
When loft fit - as 2 year olds, I may have gave a toss or two.... But very seldom.
Would only be then after youngsters -- if had any - had left the nest.