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David wrote:

ah right, so the cocks and hens are seperated, then let together before basketing ....?

hardly roundabout in the true sense of the system .......no wonder they dont want to trap, or hurry to get home

then again thats just my thoughts, who am i to question another fancier, whos racing.......i havnt a clue on how to race succesfully

Mated, unmated roundabout or what ever I don't really care here at the end of the day     being the type of race it is Would like to know thou do they put the drinkers on for the birds there & before they are released to race for a drink.

Knackered wrote:

David wrote:

ah right, so the cocks and hens are seperated, then let together before basketing ....?

hardly roundabout in the true sense of the system .......no wonder they dont want to trap, or hurry to get home

then again thats just my thoughts, who am i to question another fancier, whos racing.......i havnt a clue on how to race succesfully

Mated, unmated roundabout or what ever I don't really care here at the end of the day     being the type of race it is Would like to know thou do they put the drinkers on for the birds there & before they are released to race for a drink.

Good point Knackered, dehydration not good for man nor beast.

If the pigeons are dropping for a drink sometimes they are reluctant to, or unable,  to continue until recovered somewhat.

As far as I am concerned  the whole thing  has been a shambles.

Said before the race they should have been given the chance to fully recover from the previous shambles.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Knackered wrote:

David wrote:

ah right, so the cocks and hens are seperated, then let together before basketing ....?

hardly roundabout in the true sense of the system .......no wonder they dont want to trap, or hurry to get home

then again thats just my thoughts, who am i to question another fancier, whos racing.......i havnt a clue on how to race succesfully

Mated, unmated roundabout or what ever I don't really care here at the end of the day     being the type of race it is Would like to know thou do they put the drinkers on for the birds there & before they are released to race for a drink.

Good point Knackered, dehydration not good for man nor beast.

If the pigeons are dropping for a drink sometimes they are reluctant to, or unable,  to continue until recovered somewhat.

As far as I am concerned  the whole thing  has been a shambles.

Said before the race they should have been given the chance to fully recover from the previous shambles.

Regards.

If as suspected it somehow turns into header this week etc Misty it would be criminal in my view here, if the majority of those late ones went back again to race. For me here with what we have seen unfold over the last few weeks I would much prefer a rest week there now, with maybe a header from around 30 miles to just reboot again & then maybe worry about what may be the week after type of thing. & take care.

to be fair i cannot see them not being watered ,basic needs and loft manager knows that ....he is a good flyer in his club or was ,i think its falcon strikes ,my own organisation has been having poor races on the north route but one thing i cannot understand is not racing the one loft yearlings/ybs with an organisation instead of going solo ,surely it would be more ideal

i think it could be that darren, but to me the birds dont look very motivated, even the first birds arnt in a hurry to trap ...........that would be my theory on it.

From my point of view Knackered I would rather  93 stay out of the next race along with all the other 2nd and day and late comers.

They may put drinkers on but some pigeons are reluctant to partake or kept away from the drinkers by other pigeons. 

You do not get over dehydration over night  nor in a week.

Have said for years it is one of the main causes of losses.

Regards.

you will always get a dominant cock bossing a corner of the basket but not hens so much ,nothing can be done about that eh...yes david they dont seem very motivated to me either ,as oz has said i wouldl like to see a week off then a nice toss into a steady header ,only 120 yearlings left in it so does not bode well for a good race with such small numbers racing even further ,one falcon strike and the race will be ruined and thats has to be the problem thus far ,why not race with the southwest england lerwick club/welsh north road amalgamation surely safety in numbers and both organisations would be on the same line of flight as the one loft ,it would be ideal ...if i can see that why not the rpra i feel for the loft manager as no doubt he wants good races eh and flys a good bird himself but no doubt theres whispers in his ear from the rpra noddy crew dont think the yearling thing is value for money anyway and best stick with ybs eh ,£200 to enter and forfeiting auction money to ,we could have had at least 3 more yb entries but we live and learn eh atb

Sorry oldstrain, no excuses as far as I am concerned, if any decent fancier lost so many pigeons from such short races after flying a full YB programme I would say he was in the wrong sport and feel sorry for the pigeons.

Regards.

handling 1500 ybs and all the health problems is not that cut and dried i am afraid but respect your opinion so i will agree to disagree ,most cant keep 20 ybs fit and healthy let alone 1500 easy to shove all the blame on the loft manager eh but we dont know all the ins and outs due to certain factions taking advantage of such its not common knowledge and kept under wraps...just go down the club and see some of the candidates in the baskets....there done before the basket is even opened

Not talking about young birds but yearlings that have flown a full programme as youngsters.

What is also  not known how and with what they are treated.

Agree oldstrain not easy with that number of youngsters not an enviable job but the yearlings ????????.

Regards.

yeah i see where yer coming from misty but like i said other north rd orgs are not having it easy either so it all points to falcon strikes ,i mean 1 strike en-route would ruin the race with that number of birds when over 1000 in a lib is producing similar racing ,in the last 2 races in swelc amalgamation only 40 odd were clocked with hugely varying velocities atb

Would be interesting to put a camera on one or two in a liberation to see just what happens, if it is as we think raptors, then we would at least know.

The technology available could easily be capable of sorting it out if the will was there.

Just wonder if migratory birds are having problems, not with raptors but in general.

Been kicked around that technology being used in other matters can affect the homing instinct, trouble with that some make it back in reasonable time.

Think we are just going to have to grin and bear it, fanciers are the last on any ones list of concern.

Regards.

the loft manager did say he put one of his own birds in with a tracker on and it went down after 30 mins of liberation over the pennines which is a known falcon hotspot ...also solar flares are a problem messing with the earths magnetic field ,i always viewed the forecast chart when i raced and when it was a high reading there were bad races

oldstrain wrote:

you will always get a dominant cock bossing a corner of the basket but not hens so much ,nothing can be done about that eh...yes david they dont seem very motivated to me either ,as oz has said i wouldl like to see a week off then a nice toss into a steady header ,only 120 yearlings left in it so does not bode well for a good race with such small numbers racing even further ,one falcon strike and the race will be ruined and thats has to be the problem thus far ,why not race with the southwest england lerwick club/welsh north road amalgamation surely safety in numbers and both organisations would be on the same line of flight as the one loft ,it would be ideal ...if i can see that why not the rpra i feel for the loft manager as no doubt he wants good races eh and flys a good bird himself but no doubt theres whispers in his ear from the rpra noddy crew dont think the yearling thing is value for money anyway and best stick with ybs eh ,£200 to enter and forfeiting auction money to ,we could have had at least 3 more yb entries but we live and learn eh atb

Live & learn etc O/S Do think here also with what has happened sadly so far with our 93 & the like, a rethink on average maybe is required now to save the season, unless one is quite happy     to just see the ship maybe, sink in a major type way in the end .

i reckon they will race tuesday from alnwick ,looks a strong headwind sat/sun/mon

It's got to be more than lack of motivation being the problem for poor returns.

Why would a pigeon just not bother returning to the only place it knows for food, shelter and water? Especially somewhat educated yearlings with experience on the road. Can't see them wanting to fly off into the distance to go hungry and thirsty on purpose just because they aren't paired etc. How many times have you sent a stray on its way, chucked miles nearer it's home but it comes back because it remembers that's where it's last meal was, not because it's paired, widowhood, or roundabout whatever.

You can send natural youngbirds, 2nd or even 3rd rounders to these sort of distances in club racing and expect to get them. These aren't sitting, driving, even paired up but they still home to the only safe place they know by instinct. Even poorly motivated or non motivated birds would be expected to return in reasonable time, you can send a spare cock or hen to a race and it will get home, sometimes even surprise you.

However they still have to be fit enough to start with especially if it's not a blow home. If the problem is hawks/falcons then it's a really bad problem as it's constant and these one loft birds are either unlucky or the route is plagued with them, in which case there would still be a fair few returning late with signs of attacks or being reported hawked, not sure if this has happened??

It's impossible to say what the problem is since not being directly involved, we can only guess, but it's a terrible shame for all competitors who carried their YB's over for another season to end up with this type of racing. The knock on effect is even less will participate in future years.

Anyway, we're still in there so lets get behind 93

good post colin ,north rd racing is very erratic at present ...with the one loft birds being the only liberation unlike the weekends i wouldimagine falcons give the liberation alot of attention atb

Of course a pigeon does not need motivation, that is why fanciers spend thousands of pounds on widowhood and the natural system, and other systems of motivation.

My pigeons flew for the love of their home and the life they enjoyed, no better motivation even the less well blessed  with speed were eager to get back as fast as they could. Complete open hole.

If a pigeon sets off with little or no motivation other than food the only  way it will return as soon as  possible is if it is hungry, then if not not enough in the tank to get back BINGO.

Regards.

i think we can put part of it down to preditors, but not to the extent of the bad racing we are having, we only have to watch them trap, to see they have very little interest , anything can, and sometimes does home eventually .......

You have to remember these same pigeons flew YB races last year reportedly split sexes and ran together on basketing. Appears same method employed this year as yearlings (which is proven to work in many successful racing lofts).
Although it may not suit every remaining yearling OLR candidate as far as motivation goes, the point I'm making is they should still "home" regardless, it got them back to the loft as young birds before they were this mature. I agree the hawks will be having an effect but to the point where the majority are dropping like flies from very short distances, well I'm not 100 per cent convinced.

barnie wrote:

You have to remember these same pigeons flew YB races last year reportedly split sexes and ran together on basketing. Appears same method employed this year as yearlings (which is proven to work in many successful racing lofts).
Although it may not suit every remaining yearling OLR candidate as far as motivation goes, the point I'm making is they should still "home" regardless, it got them back to the loft as young birds before they were this mature. I agree the hawks will be having an effect but to the point where the majority are dropping like flies from very short distances, well I'm not 100 per cent convinced.

In basic terms Colin one could say, maybe they were the best of the best in some ways etc from the year before to a degree & now most have hit the wall getting home from 160 odd miles, sadly. We all know at times how falcons/hawks are a real problem/issue, but really now in fast races as has been normal I suggest how many do they take if the birds are capable of sticking together as a mob heading to the one loft & at a height to see a 100 odd miles maybe & if tuned into racing mode. Now I suspect on average we all grumble about hawks/falcons I suggest at times, but I come from the land down under here where we tend to say, every 2nd lamp post etc up country has one sitting on it as such & if truth be told & like quite a few I could name in a local sense here we have all still bred over time, hundreds & hundreds of 5/600 type pigeons to race home successfully come the end of the day racing & also may I just add in the end to a simple type perch on average I suspect, on average      .

*****

oldstrain wrote:

good post colin ,north rd racing is very erratic at present ...with the one loft birds being the only liberation unlike the weekends i wouldimagine falcons give the liberation alot of attention atb

Certainly was a good post etc O/S any one here like thou to track the first ten birds home in the recent race etc over our 2 races & then compare to the last ten home  & if you see maybe a difference somehow on average.