Creating a Line

i watch a dog channel on you tube, the creator breeds his own line / breed of dogs.........i read in the comments it says to breed your own line of horse it takes 3 generations, and to create your own line of dogs takes 5 generations.

how many would it take to create your own line of pigeons, any thoughts ...?

I know a lot off fanciers like to bye a complete round for 3 years then they have every line off that loft they are buying from

Think that's why a lot of Belgium fanciers have contracts with other fanciers buying from them

Don Webb wrote:

I know a lot off fanciers like to bye a complete round for 3 years then they have every line off that loft they are buying from

Think that's why a lot of Belgium fanciers have contracts with other fanciers buying from them  

In certain/some ways etc Don it's a nonsense type query/question here I suggest for the average type flyer on the whole One could even say it's a British type thing, maybe & the Belgium's like many others have found a far better ways to be successful on the race track than worrying about breeding what one would call a typical family type of thing in a pigeon sense. Have an old book here Creatation of a Strain, some where listed how many of your old flyers, back when went about making their families of the day & for the most part they just went about bringing good pigeons of the highest order like the Belgium's do & have done so for years etc. End of the day all related to the rock dove & maybe a few homing crows I suspect even maybe .

best to best or first cross of 2 inbred families ...your always taking a chance anyway when breeding on pedigrees as alot of porky pies going on eh so best to best on performance for me

Well I always thought, feel, believe that 'Best to Best' means - down the line - 'Worst to Worst' mated!
12 pairs means soon all 12 pairs would/will be mated!
Maybe eggs saved and placed later under a 'surrogate' pair.... but then very time consuming I fear.

Think over the years George Busschaert can be said to have had a great impact  on racing pigeons in this country.

Reading his history in the sport, he never had a BREED of pigeon, he had a mixture of  all sorts.

His history in the sport is good reading and dispells many theories.

For me I bought the nearest to the Champions I could and from many different sources and let their off spring get on with it in open loft.

Regards.

Certainly George Busschaert set many records here. Many more he set in Belgium too. Both times he flew in Belgium. Second time he had to fly under sister, and/or another relative as no club would let him join.

Why! Because he bought off Delbar afer the war's ending.

When he flew in the Kent feds he set the place alive.

Possibly top stock man. Definately in top three of all time.
Along with Janseen and Masserella.

oldstrain wrote:

best to best or first cross of 2 inbred families  ...your always taking a chance anyway when breeding on pedigrees as alot of porky pies going on eh so best to best on performance for me

I couldn't agree more Daz Best to best for me everytime

Daz wrote:

Certainly George Busschaert set many records here. Many more he set in Belgium too. Both times he flew in Belgium. Second time he had to fly under sister, and/or another relative as no club would let him join.

Why! Because he bought off Delbar afer the war's ending.

When he flew in the Kent feds he set the place alive.

Possibly top stock man. Definately in top three of all time.
Along with Janseen and Masserella.

Daz I am sorry to bring bad news to you but Busschaert had pigeons from everyone who won, THIS FROM THE HORSES MPOUTH, my friend J.T Lawley (Tommy) from West Bromwich, was visiting Belguim like he did every year and he was visiting Busscheart when there one afternoon, Busschaert had 3 large baskests of youngsters delivered and they were mianly dark/black chequers
Tommy asked George where have this come from and George was quite open he said they are Stauitabults the only person who Tommy knew with the Stauitabult strain was Andre Leatard (Sorry about spelling) and Tommy did not buy from George but brought from Andre
And if you do your homework Tommy was the best in the country

George had pigeons from everyone who ever was winning he had a round off youngster

That is the biggest problem with UK fanciers we want pigeons from Dirk Van Den Bulk, Leo Hermans ect, there pigeons are all from best to best crossed with there own

What fanciers don't realise is that everything in Belgium is Heinz 57

Belgium fanciers are only interested in performance pigeons full stop regardless off strain (Long or Short Distance breeding) as long as they win that's all that matters to them

oldstrain wrote:

best to best or first cross of 2 inbred families  ...your always taking a chance anyway when breeding on pedigrees as alot of porky pies going on eh so best to best on performance for me

Daz going on about getting a line, remember Henry Gonzalas from Bristol he was a brilliant fancier on the north road, all his pigeons were crosses

Remember speaking to Henry at Blackpool after his sale and he was not happy with there prices but like Henry said I tell the truth my pigeons are crosses and i'm not going to tell lies and say they are pure this and pure that when they are not just to make money but never mind.

You could say Henry's pigeons where Heinz 57 but they won big

Don Webb wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

best to best or first cross of 2 inbred families  ...your always taking a chance anyway when breeding on pedigrees as alot of porky pies going on eh so best to best on performance for me

Daz going on about getting a line, remember Henry Gonzalas from Bristol he was a brilliant fancier on the north road, all his pigeons were crosses

Remember speaking to Henry at Blackpool after his sale and he was not happy with there prices but like Henry said I tell the truth my pigeons are crosses and i'm not going to tell lies and say they are pure this and pure that when they are not just to make money but never mind.

You could say Henry's pigeons where Heinz 57 but they won big

Seem to recall from the past here etc Don     (could be wrong) he had great success with some of the best of Verheye's there type of thing on his journey to fame in a racing sense. Remember, because at one stage here I actually fell in love here with some of those Rainstorm Verheye's      being pretty pied types that could sprint faster than my old plodder distance types I once had     back when.

Knackered wrote:

Don Webb wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

best to best or first cross of 2 inbred families  ...your always taking a chance anyway when breeding on pedigrees as alot of porky pies going on eh so best to best on performance for me

Daz going on about getting a line, remember Henry Gonzalas from Bristol he was a brilliant fancier on the north road, all his pigeons were crosses

Remember speaking to Henry at Blackpool after his sale and he was not happy with there prices but like Henry said I tell the truth my pigeons are crosses and i'm not going to tell lies and say they are pure this and pure that when they are not just to make money but never mind.

You could say Henry's pigeons where Heinz 57 but they won big

Seem to recall from the past here etc Don     (could be wrong) he had great success with some of the best of Verheye's there type of thing on his journey to fame in a racing sense. Remember, because at one stage here I actually fell in love here with some of those Rainstorm Verheye's      being pretty pied types that could sprint faster than my old plodder distance types I once had     back when.

yes oz/don henry had vereyes and buschaerts and a few other bits and bobs ,henry was one of the most informative fanciers i have been lucky enough to meet henry was winning in a club with over 50 members sending in the same club as my grandfather henry would take the first 6 in most races up to 300 miles ,amazing really ,he then went onto competition fishing and did very well at that to henry is just one of those"knowing" type of guys but a real gent

There is no such thing as a PURE BREED.

There will allways be genes involved not developed by the breeder.

If the studs were subject to quality control and value for money they would all be out of business, at least 90% sold will be rubbish.

The same applies to horse racing and other sports involving animals.

A stallion will cover hundreds of mares a year yet only a hand full will be above selling platers, and the very odd one percentage wise a classic winner.

Looking at some of the townies, fit as fiddles, perhaps a better place to look for healthy pigeons is the town centre.

Regards.

Agreed Don 100% he did. Unbelievably, indeed Miracously, he also bought - for fanciers - a pair from very far afield, - miles away, from two different fanciers he, the fanciers had never seen that went to stock and bred winners!

I was saying he was never forgiven for buying his first birds from Delbar Don.

MISTY wrote:

There is no such thing as a PURE BREED.

There will allways be genes involved not developed by the breeder.

If the studs were subject to quality control and value for money they would all be out of business, at least 90% sold will be rubbish.

The same applies to horse racing and other sports involving animals.

A stallion will cover hundreds of mares a year yet only a hand full will be above selling platers, and the very odd one percentage wise a classic winner.

Looking at some of the townies, fit as fiddles, perhaps a better place to look for healthy pigeons is the town centre.

Regards.

True pigeons or horses easy way to burn a hole in your pocket type of thing I suggest