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Oldstrain/Darren`s Winner of winners. 2012.
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 eye for martyn and don

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Knackered
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:02 am

[quote="David"]according to jack barkel, theres not much chance of that knackered.........here is his verdict on it.

Weak Or Faulted Eyes.

The eye attached is a pearl eye, it's father is a Champion Yellow Eyed Stock Cock in a famous loft that is known world wide. He is paired with a pearl eyed hen that is faulted, in so much that the correlation runs right through the iris of the mother at 1-0-clock. The owner however does not want to believe me as some good birds have been produced from this mating. It is living on the quality genes of the sire, the hens off this mating are good having inherited solely from their father, the Cocks are a mixed lot of acceptable and rejects having inherited from both parents.


MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  Smile  Smile With all due respect to Mr Barkel, David etc "Now dead" it is just one man's view type of thing & I just wonder ??? how Mr Eyesign "Bob fleming deceased" or Myron as an example, would have evaluated the same eye if they all got together for a chin wag. Now !!!  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes here is another one. On that other site  Wink  Wink George knows it well  lol!  lol!  lol! we have a photo of a pigeon called Jackpot Lady, winnings of 2500 pounds in an open race. Anybody here have any thoughts on what part the eye played when it hit the landing board to win or it's future value by its eye.  cheers
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:57 am

This is why eyes are so amazing they are all different and that's what makes pigeons special, if you own any other birds, like budgies, canaries finches you will see they all have the same eyes, and I don't mean lutinos or mutations with different colours but the structure and nearly 99% are all the same. you will see a flat even colour I these eyes and its the same with wild birds all the same.

Pigeons eyes are like finger prints and they are totally unique to every single pigeon, some are very similar and have traits but all different.
I use an eye glass with a light on it but direct sunlight also with this is best because strong light will shrink the pupil to expose the bit we want to see.

Good idea to put a bad eye on here, however as I have said before racing eyes are very different to breeders, I could find a poor breeding eye but not a racing eye, racers can have any eye and look like any without showing quality as we know it, I have seen good racers with the flattest eyes in the world, I personally fail to establish a good racer for sure. obviously a lot of racers have great eyes and that I can see but most have nothing.
However breeders are different and these can be easily spotted if you know what to look for.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:59 am

send me a link to that pigeon jackpot lady I will look.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:19 am

Ok been on a well known pigeon site and have 3 eyes, all what I would call run of the mill eyes, all similar and what I would expect to see in 80 % of all lofts.

They are all what I would also call racing eyes that is to say all capable of winning prizes racing, not not that likely to. Because as I said IMO racing eyes can be almost any type, but would any of these breed good racers again IMO no but whos to say if paired to a crack they wouldn't as genetics are a mystery.

Eye sign is only a helping hand to finding the almost unknown and that's why I practise it, but is it fool proof and 100 % accurate? never ever or we would all be champions over night.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:20 am

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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:20 am

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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:21 am

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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:29 am

This is turning out to be a great talking topic and i hope more put there knowledge out there for us to soak up.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:01 am

cowandchicken wrote:
This is turning out to be a great talking topic and i hope more put there knowledge out there for us to soak up.

yes I agree Jason, its very informative some of our eyesign followers sharing their views......especially now breeding is upon us.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:11 am

its a complexed subject when delving into eyesign especially when you consider the birds eye changes as it gets older it gets richer more detail
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:13 am

whats the story with the last eye shown martyn, to me it looks similar to the blow home eye jack barkel shown, and even though its iris is mountainous its very weak with the base colour showing heavily through.........???
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:16 am

oldstrain wrote:
its a complexed subject when delving into eyesign especially when you consider the birds eye changes as it gets older it gets richer more detail

I agree darren, like knackered said, eyesign students will all give a different opinion of the same eye, and when you consider weather, condition of the pigeon, the opposition it is flying against, hawks, wires etc, etc, nothing can be a certainty in racing......maybe more use evaluating for breeding.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:20 pm

David don't get confused with good quality pictures as these are, they show a lot of detail, they are a lot flatter in reality as the eye gets zoomed in it looks better than it is. That picture is hundreds of times bigger than reality.

The last eye is almost the sae as the other 2 but different colour, a typical plain or racing eye gives nothing away could be a champion? but I don't think so..lol

I will now post 3 eyes same colours as I can but class breeders for you to compare the difference, they will be either proven breeder/racers or proven breeders.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:26 pm

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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:27 pm

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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:29 pm

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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:23 pm

good point about the picture quality martyn, judging the worth of the eye can as you say be confused by the quality of the picture and the magnification......I`ll bear this in mind.

eye 2 and 3 look very similar to me martyn , but I prefer eye no 3 JMO
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:05 pm

All 6 eyes are basically the same to me, they are all by my definition racing eyes, where as the first 3 show us nothing of value to look at, the last 3 show everything and can be judged.

All 6 may well be of equal racing ability and be as good as each other.. I say may be.. or might be, although I think not, but the last 3 also have other qualities such as breeding value which the first 3 don't have.

Because I have already said that racers eyes can be anything and I haven't managed to solve anything which tells me its a good racer on some pigeons, what I mean is if all these 6 were in a sale I would never buy the first 3 but would buy the last 3 based on what I know, however they might all have equal racing ability and only the last 3 I would be certain of, and the first 3 I couldn't say.
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:10 pm

martyn, would you say eyesign is more of a guide for breeding, rather than judging if a pigeon would be a good racer.....? is this the main use for eyesign ?
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:49 pm

David for me that is totally what I am saying...I think about breeding a super bird or just a really great bird as a lottery, if the odds are a million to 1 then maybe with a bit of eye sign you change the odds to 500,000 to 1. So I WOULD TAKE A HALVING OF THE ODDS ANY DAY.

Thing is with this type of theory is genetics, which has so many combinations, so many in fact that it can be a lottery even with good pigeons, even great breeders never breed only good.

Because a bird takes 25% from sire 25% dam, and the biggest chunk left 50% is entirely unique then that huge 50% could be almost anything.
People think eye sign is a science and shoot it down because we cant have 100% success with it, but no breeder can do that with fantastic pigeons.

Used as a guide with common sense and logic and patience I think it can be very use full and even an advantage, but not a perfect science simply because of the massive combinations associated with genetics.

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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:43 pm

Rudderfett wrote:
I almost forgot the most important comment, that is it takes 2 so be careful what its paired to...post pics of eyes of possible mates and we can have a look.....just another thing some people have commented that you cant see what makes up a good bird by the eye, guts and heart are 2 of those and I totally agree those things are not in the eye.

Fingers are working overtime here I suspect Rudd Smile Smile "Go man Go" Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Now !!!. Seeing as I'm left handed etc here I hope lol! lol! lol! I have this right now, I look at the right eye in general of my birds etc a right handed person, would look at the left eye I suspect/hope Wink Wink. So in general terms ??? does one eye of a pigeon when grading have preferance over the other eye from your experience type  of thing. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:02 pm

martyn, im confused here.....doesn't a yb take 50% off each parent ?
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:23 pm

David wrote:
martyn, im confused here.....doesn't a yb take 50% off each parent ?

Steady on David Smile Smile I'm having enough trouble ??? getting my mind around the eye sign bit etc. Genetic's on top of all what I'm trying to take in here, will blow my mind lol! lol! lol! up the creek completely. Legitimate question though bounce bounce so I look foreward to the answer Wink Wink. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: eye for martyn and don   Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:52 pm

its all interesting stuff eh knackered......... Razz
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