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 Best racing stud in the world

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Rudderfett
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PostSubject: Best racing stud in the world   Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:16 pm

As we have been taking about eye sign and selection on here recently, I thought I would share this with members as I think its very interesting and might help with an insight to future selections in breeding.

As I have said on here before I have bought pigeons from Hans Eijerkamp in Holland, and I believe them to be the most honest fanciers alive today.

They have an up to date website which is innovative and fancier friendly, constantly changing and full of great pigeons that they race unlike most studs, with their total transparency of pedigrees of both their racers and breeders for all to see, and that's what you but.

I don't want to sound just like an advert for their lofts, but I would like to show fanciers who maybe haven't visited the site how it works for them, and then what they pass on to us as potential buyers and fellow fanciers.

The next post is a sample of what they have posted today on their site which you can read for yourself and it looks like its an on going piece of knowledge to be continued.
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:17 pm

Selection Uncertainty (1)


06/02/2015

Seemingly there is nothing more mysterious than the selection or evaluation of a pigeon’s racing or breeding potential. As racing pigeon fanciers our goal is winning early prizes, we need top pigeons to attain this goal and these are few and far between. There are lofts that cause a furor for a year or two, having one or two pigeons racing at the top of race result, resulting in the fancier becoming well-known within the sport. When both of these pigeons come to the end of their careers, this loft very quickly becomes an average loft.
But, when a fancier places birds at the front of the peloton, the other fanciers think that he has found “it” and suddenly knows more about pigeons then he did before.
This fancier is given credit for having insight on pigeon selection, while he only discovered the top pigeons after they placed at the top of the race sheet regularly.
Often, to his great sorrow, the parents to the top pigeon(s) have already been disposed of because they had not flown any noteworthy positions.

Selection remains a phenomenon that can keep us guessing and keep us unsure of ourselves. At times we go to an “expert” who assesses the pigeons in our loft, or during a pleasant evening at the club and entertains us with his theories and verdict on the pigeons presented to him.
Over many years we have handled thousands of pigeons, among them innumerable top pigeons, resulting in the development of our 7 point system. This helps us when selecting because we have faith in the system. Other systems or standards used by fanciers can also be useful as long as the system is logical and followed consistently.

When selecting we have to make a distinction between selecting pigeons for the race team and selecting pigeons destined for the breeding loft. Selecting breeding pigeons is relatively simple if we use a number of assumptions. A breeding pigeon should have earned its spurs, as it should have shown that it is a top pigeon on the race course and it should descend from top pigeons. A complete and detailed pedigree is a starting point. A breeding pigeon, that has not shown it has any racing abilities or its ancestors have not shown the same, should not be in the breeding loft. Not that it won’t produce any good youngsters, but because the chance that it will is much smaller than breeding out of pigeons that have shown they and their ancestors have racing abilities.
Selecting racing pigeon is probably even more straightforward. During the race season we get race results and there is no better way to measure the pigeon’s worth than reading the race result.
We want good pigeons that can win early prizes, why would you than not use the race results?
Fanciers are inclined to focus on exceptions and use them as a shield against their indecision. They once had a pigeon which wasn’t much in the hand and still flew early prizes. They don’t forget these exceptions, as happy times remain in our memories for quite some time. When making their annual selection they think back to that one exception and end up allowing pigeons that should be disposed of, due to their lack of physical qualities, to remain in the loft, “you just never know”. They have conveniently forgotten the many pigeons, with the same faults, who didn’t return from the race or had been eliminated.

To be continued.

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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:31 pm

Marten that's an interesting read mate
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:31 am

Don Webb wrote:
Marten that's an interesting read mate


Same same Smile Smile thank's for that info Rudd. Not much spin & bling  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes there for what I see, but just a good honest appraisal from some of the icons in our sport. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:08 pm

That's what I mean, with all the talk about eyes and such which I do buy into, and with all the mysterys and potions, things we talk about with systems, methods , feeding times, darkness..I could go on and on.

But as you say icons of the sport and lets be honest they have had the pleasure of seeing better pigeons and results than any of us even dream about. And they come up with this honest no nonsense approach to the sport with simple answers, I advise fanciers read it and then read it again, there is much to be learned.
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:32 pm

yeah its a good read martyn and logical
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:55 pm

Agree with them 100%.
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:06 am

Rudderfett wrote:
That's what I mean, with all the talk about eyes and such which I do buy into, and with all the mysterys and potions, things we talk about with systems, methods , feeding times, darkness..I could go on and on.

But as you say icons of the sport and lets be honest they have had the pleasure of seeing better pigeons and results than any of us even dream about. And they come up with this honest no nonsense approach to the sport with simple answers, I advise fanciers read it and then read it again, there is much to be learned.


Steady on Rudd Wink Wink do you wish to close this site down etc. One has to be allowed to perpetuate the illusion  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes that there are secrets out their for everyone to find. As such lol! lol! lol! please retrack the above post bounce bounce so the likes of myself & others here can continue on our merry way. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:03 am

Rudderfett wrote:
Selection Uncertainty (1)


06/02/2015

Seemingly there is nothing more mysterious than the selection or evaluation of a pigeon’s racing or breeding potential. As racing pigeon fanciers our goal is winning early prizes, we need top pigeons to attain this goal and these are few and far between. There are lofts that cause a furor for a year or two, having one or two pigeons racing at the top of race result, resulting in the fancier becoming well-known within the sport. When both of these pigeons come to the end of their careers, this loft very quickly becomes an average loft.
But, when a fancier places birds at the front of the peloton, the other fanciers think that he has found “it” and suddenly knows more about pigeons then he did before.
This fancier is given credit for having insight on pigeon selection, while he only discovered the top pigeons after they placed at the top of the race sheet regularly.
Often, to his great sorrow, the parents to the top pigeon(s) have already been disposed of because they had not flown any noteworthy positions.

Selection remains a phenomenon that can keep us guessing and keep us unsure of ourselves. At times we go to an “expert” who assesses the pigeons in our loft, or during a pleasant evening at the club and entertains us with his theories and verdict on the pigeons presented to him.  
Over many years we have handled thousands of pigeons, among them innumerable top pigeons, resulting in the development of our 7 point system. This helps us when selecting because we have faith in the system.  Other systems or standards used by fanciers can also be useful as long as the system is logical and followed consistently.

When selecting we have to make a distinction between selecting pigeons for the race team and selecting pigeons destined for the breeding loft. Selecting breeding pigeons is relatively simple if we use a number of assumptions. A breeding pigeon should have earned its spurs, as it should have shown that it is a top pigeon on the race course and it should descend from top pigeons. A complete and detailed pedigree is a starting point. A breeding pigeon, that has not shown it has any racing abilities or its ancestors have not shown the same, should not be in the breeding loft. Not that it won’t produce any good youngsters, but because the chance that it will is much smaller than breeding out of pigeons that have shown they and their ancestors have racing abilities.
Selecting racing pigeon is probably even more straightforward. During the race season we get race results and there is no better way to measure the pigeon’s worth than reading the race result.
We want good pigeons that can win early prizes, why would you than not use the race results?
Fanciers are inclined to focus on exceptions and use them as a shield against their indecision. They once had a pigeon which wasn’t much in the hand and still flew early prizes. They don’t forget these exceptions, as happy times remain in our memories for quite some time. When making their annual selection they think back to that one exception and end up allowing pigeons that should be disposed of, due to their lack of physical qualities, to remain in the loft, “you just never know”. They have conveniently forgotten the many pigeons, with the same faults, who didn’t return from the race or had been eliminated.

To be continued.

Remember this...These type of people are only intrested in putting their hand in your back pocket...understand that ..if you can... then its up to you....cant understand why you would try to promote these types...let them pay for hype themselves
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:04 pm

Mr grizzle cock, I think you speak from your bum.

If you even put a bid on the pigeons at their auctions you stand a chance of winning free pigeons, and if you like the face book page you can win pigeons If you participate in the guess the race speed velocity you can win a pigeon. All this is true as I have won 2 free of charge just pay postage, and not second rate birds but same as you can buy from them, I had a free 1 two years ago and it has bred prize winners.

Tell me of another stud in the world who will give away free pigeons?? simple answer not 1 and you wont even get a free transfer card with most either.

Everyone has an opinion, and entitled to them, but I do SUGGEST some research before you open your mouth with remarks which are un founded and harmful.
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:34 pm

Rudderfett wrote:
Mr grizzle cock, I think you speak from your bum.

If you even put a bid on the pigeons at their auctions you stand a chance of winning free pigeons, and if you like the face book page you can win pigeons If you participate in the guess the race speed velocity you can win a pigeon. All this is true as I have won 2 free of charge just pay postage, and not second rate birds but same as you can buy from them, I had a free 1 two years ago and it has bred prize winners.

Tell me of another stud in the world who will give away free pigeons?? simple answer not 1 and you wont even get a free transfer card with most either.

Everyone has an opinion, and entitled to them, but I do SUGGEST some research before you open your mouth with remarks which are un founded and harmful.

lol you will be telling us next they only sell out of the goodness of their hearts...your having a laugh mate....i know most fanciers are thick,but you should not take the p**s mate
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:43 pm

GRIZZLECOCK wrote:
Rudderfett wrote:
Mr grizzle cock, I think you speak from your bum.

If you even put a bid on the pigeons at their auctions you stand a chance of winning free pigeons, and if you like the face book page you can win pigeons If you participate in the guess the race speed velocity you can win a pigeon. All this is true as I have won 2 free of charge just pay postage, and not second rate birds but same as you can buy from them, I had a free 1 two years ago and it has bred prize winners.

Tell me of another stud in the world who will give away free pigeons?? simple answer not 1 and you wont even get a free transfer card with most either.

Everyone has an opinion, and entitled to them, but I do SUGGEST some research before you open your mouth with remarks which are un founded and harmful.

  lol  you will be telling us next they only sell out of the goodness of their hearts...your having a laugh mate....i know most fanciers are thick,but you should not take the p**s mate

Grizzle clock can I ask you to please see me face to face and call me thick scratch scratch

Don't think you will like the end result Wink Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:44 pm

Rudderfett wrote:
Mr grizzle cock, I think you speak from your bum.

If you even put a bid on the pigeons at their auctions you stand a chance of winning free pigeons, and if you like the face book page you can win pigeons If you participate in the guess the race speed velocity you can win a pigeon. All this is true as I have won 2 free of charge just pay postage, and not second rate birds but same as you can buy from them, I had a free 1 two years ago and it has bred prize winners.

Tell me of another stud in the world who will give away free pigeons?? simple answer not 1 and you wont even get a free transfer card with most either.

Everyone has an opinion, and entitled to them, but I do SUGGEST some research before you open your mouth with remarks which are un founded and harmful.

Spot on Martyn
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:26 pm

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:45 pm

GRIZZLECOCK wrote:
Rudderfett wrote:
Selection Uncertainty (1)


06/02/2015

Seemingly there is nothing more mysterious than the selection or evaluation of a pigeon’s racing or breeding potential. As racing pigeon fanciers our goal is winning early prizes, we need top pigeons to attain this goal and these are few and far between. There are lofts that cause a furor for a year or two, having one or two pigeons racing at the top of race result, resulting in the fancier becoming well-known within the sport. When both of these pigeons come to the end of their careers, this loft very quickly becomes an average loft.
But, when a fancier places birds at the front of the peloton, the other fanciers think that he has found “it” and suddenly knows more about pigeons then he did before.
This fancier is given credit for having insight on pigeon selection, while he only discovered the top pigeons after they placed at the top of the race sheet regularly.
Often, to his great sorrow, the parents to the top pigeon(s) have already been disposed of because they had not flown any noteworthy positions.

Selection remains a phenomenon that can keep us guessing and keep us unsure of ourselves. At times we go to an “expert” who assesses the pigeons in our loft, or during a pleasant evening at the club and entertains us with his theories and verdict on the pigeons presented to him.  
Over many years we have handled thousands of pigeons, among them innumerable top pigeons, resulting in the development of our 7 point system. This helps us when selecting because we have faith in the system.  Other systems or standards used by fanciers can also be useful as long as the system is logical and followed consistently.

When selecting we have to make a distinction between selecting pigeons for the race team and selecting pigeons destined for the breeding loft. Selecting breeding pigeons is relatively simple if we use a number of assumptions. A breeding pigeon should have earned its spurs, as it should have shown that it is a top pigeon on the race course and it should descend from top pigeons. A complete and detailed pedigree is a starting point. A breeding pigeon, that has not shown it has any racing abilities or its ancestors have not shown the same, should not be in the breeding loft. Not that it won’t produce any good youngsters, but because the chance that it will is much smaller than breeding out of pigeons that have shown they and their ancestors have racing abilities.
Selecting racing pigeon is probably even more straightforward. During the race season we get race results and there is no better way to measure the pigeon’s worth than reading the race result.
We want good pigeons that can win early prizes, why would you than not use the race results?
Fanciers are inclined to focus on exceptions and use them as a shield against their indecision. They once had a pigeon which wasn’t much in the hand and still flew early prizes. They don’t forget these exceptions, as happy times remain in our memories for quite some time. When making their annual selection they think back to that one exception and end up allowing pigeons that should be disposed of, due to their lack of physical qualities, to remain in the loft, “you just never know”. They have conveniently forgotten the many pigeons, with the same faults, who didn’t return from the race or had been eliminated.

To be continued.

 Remember this...These type of people are only intrested in putting their hand in your back pocket...understand that ..if you can... then its up to you....cant understand why you would try to promote these types...let them pay for hype themselves


Wouldn't by chance  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes be related to NRR would we G/C Smile Smile after your comments above. When one thinks of the sharks out there in the breeding stud side I would suspect that they would have a differant moral empathy with those in the sport etc & for just a common man as myself I would like to think they use the same ethics they use in their business side of things & that then is transferred over to the pigeon side of there enterprize. Now !!! bounce bounce I may be wrong ??? in my assumptions here. But if I was ever so lucky to spend a day with them I would be over the moon with joy in what I could handler & then, with a bit of luck I could learn something of value. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:02 pm



Selection Uncertainties [2]


12/02/2015
Selection is difficult and demanding as it requires us as fanciers to find and recognize that one topper in our pigeon colony. An often used saying, “we can’t see inside a pigeons’ head” is true and means that selection will always be more a matter of instinct and will never be an exact science.

Yes that's right, but “how about those top fanciers, they must know and see something we don’t?” you think.
Top fanciers differentiate themselves from others not only because they may be better at selection, but also because they have a good loft, are excellent caretakers and managers and have good pigeons etc.
To get on the list of top fanciers takes more than having the ability to judge a pigeon.

Take young bird selection, probably the most difficult age at which to judge a pigeon simple because we know very little about a pigeon at an early age.
But let us take the following approach.
When weaning the youngsters and have them in our hands, we select out the “worst ones”. In the back of our mind we keep thinking how few top pigeons are born every year and how small the chance is that the youngster with obvious weaknesses will become a topper.
While the youngsters are growing up you keep a close eye on them and any that don’t do as well as the others are removed. That could be for health reasons or when exercising the ones that are always the first back on the roof and to your annoyance bring the rest of the flock down with them.
Every few weeks run the youngsters through your hands, say three times, in the dark and write down your impressions without knowing which one it is. Give each of them a score, plus or minus depending on what you are looking for.
After doing this three times, remove the ones with the most demerit points from the flock.
Don’t begin training till the youngsters are exercising well and have perfect health.
We assume the youngsters have had a chance to acclimatize to the basket and have learned to drink in the basket.
When training, begin with short distances and let out a maximum of 5 at a time a couple of kilometers from the loft but also force them to find the loft on their own by single tossing them, repeat this a couple of times.
Your goal should be to keep only the best not the most, as a loft full of pigeons about which you know little will not get you anywhere.
Make sure that the youngsters have shown the ability to come home on their own and really are homing pigeons.
Likely you will start the racing season with only half the number you weaned, but those left are the ones that know how to come home. Surely, that’s better than bringing baskets full of birds to the club for the first race and after 3 weekends having as many left as you do now.
At the end of the young bird season you have an extra tool, your biggest selection friend “the race result”, it will help you make your final selections.
A large part of the young bird selection can be carried out in this way and is not all that difficult.
It seems the biggest detriment is the fancier himself who is full of uncertainty and doubt and is afraid to make the wrong choice.

To be continued.


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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:35 pm

Rudderfett wrote:


Selection Uncertainties [2]


12/02/2015
Selection is difficult and demanding as it requires us as fanciers to find and recognize that one topper in our pigeon colony. An often used saying, “we can’t see inside a pigeons’ head” is true and means that selection will always be more a matter of instinct and will never be an exact science.

Yes that's right, but “how about those top fanciers, they must know and see something we don’t?” you think.
Top fanciers differentiate themselves from others not only because they may be better at selection, but also because they have a good loft, are excellent caretakers and managers and have good pigeons etc.
To get on the list of top fanciers takes more than having the ability to judge a pigeon.

Take young bird selection, probably the most difficult age at which to judge a pigeon simple because we know very little about a pigeon at an early age.
But let us take the following approach.
When weaning the youngsters and have them in our hands, we select out the “worst ones”. In the back of our mind we keep thinking how few top pigeons are born every year and how small the chance is that the youngster with obvious weaknesses will become a topper.
While the youngsters are growing up you keep a close eye on them and any that don’t do as well as the others are removed. That could be for health reasons or when exercising the ones that are always the first back on the roof and to your annoyance bring the rest of the flock down with them.
Every few weeks run the youngsters through your hands, say three times, in the dark and write down your impressions without knowing which one it is. Give each of them a score, plus or minus depending on what you are looking for.
After doing this three times, remove the ones with the most demerit points from the flock.
Don’t begin training till the youngsters are exercising well and have perfect health.
We assume the youngsters have had a chance to acclimatize to the basket and have learned to drink in the basket.
When training, begin with short distances and let out a maximum of 5 at a time a couple of kilometers from the loft but also force them to find the loft on their own by single tossing them,  repeat this a couple of times.
Your goal should be to keep only the best not the most, as a loft full of pigeons about which you know little will not get you anywhere.
Make sure that the youngsters have shown the ability to come home on their own and really are homing pigeons.
Likely you will start the racing season with only half the number you weaned, but those left are the ones that know how to come home. Surely, that’s better than bringing baskets full of birds to the club for the first race and after 3 weekends having as many left as you do now.
At the end of the young bird season you have an extra tool, your biggest selection friend “the race result”, it will help you make your final selections.
A large part of the young bird selection can be carried out in this way and is not all that difficult.
It seems the biggest detriment is the fancier himself who is full of uncertainty and doubt and is afraid to make the wrong choice.

To be continued.

 


Once again "Thank's Rudd" bounce bounce keep it all coming here etc as I'm enjoying the read. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:37 pm

Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:15 am

Rudderfett wrote:
Very Happy


Could I suggest Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes a few more extra post's by yourself  here Rudd Smile Smile etc with that wisdom you show us all here & thou ??? bounce bounce the content is some what differant, some what Wink Wink there is an old bloke here that has just passed you in the post tally unfortunately lol! lol! lol! & so I suggest you get the whip out & regain the lead "ASAP". cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:12 am

good read martyn ....not the way I would do things but interesting never the less Wink I do think single tossing and training in small batches is a good idea and its something I do myself but fumbling in the dark was never my thing lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:32 pm

Read an article by the Belgium journalist Phillip Martin

He wrote about the fancier commiers who would handle his youngsters once ready to train at night and then grade them and do the same after three gradings the birds that were left were the winners
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:27 am

Don Webb wrote:
Read an article by the Belgium journalist Phillip Martin

He wrote about the fancier commiers who would handle his youngsters once ready to train at night and then grade them and do the same after three gradings the birds that were left were the winners

Always interesting to read those type of articles etc Don  Smile  Smile . Reminds of a video I watched here yesterday about a flyer Rozier from Belguim etc & his thought's/use of probiotics. His belief is that you make it up the day before with water & then place it in the water for the birds the day after, that way millions of good bacteria multiply 10 fold in his view & you get more bang Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes for your buck so to speak. Something I had not thought about all that much really, but just another man's way of thinking outside of the square I suspect compared to the way they are normally used. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:34 am

oldstrain wrote:
good read martyn ....not the way I would do things but interesting never the less Wink I do think single tossing and training in small batches is a good idea and its something I do myself but fumbling in the dark was never my thing lol!


MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes lol! lol! lol! Was little Alfie there Smile Smile etc created I suspect ??? with the lights on O/S Wink Wink. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:43 am

I was taken advantage of under the influence oz drunken Basketball lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Best racing stud in the world   Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:53 am

oldstrain wrote:
I was taken advantage of under the influence oz    drunken Basketball lol!


OK Smile Smile Not a bad thing I suspect Wink Wink in some ways, as you now have one cracker bounce bounce of a loft apprentice etc there now. cheers
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