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 probiotics for pigeons

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oldstrain
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PostSubject: probiotics for pigeons   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:53 pm

who uses them and which one and when do you use them
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:03 pm

I use primalac when racing ...they get it once per week at double dose day after the race
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:12 pm

I use primalac Darren, and found droppings are nice and firm.....altho I get confused over pre and pro biotics and their uses, as you know I also use the ropa b liquid but cant get my head round it all. lol! lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:28 pm

yes its when they can pick up various pathogens eh dev when in the basket and drinking from the same water as all the other birds ...ybs are obviously more exposed due to their age
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:42 pm

David wrote:
I use primalac Darren, and found droppings are nice and firm.....altho I get confused over pre and pro biotics and their uses, as you know I also use the ropa b liquid but cant get my head round it all. lol! lol! lol!

ropa flushes them out david but does not kill good bacteria and primalac replenishes good bacteria or tops it up ....primalac has been used in the usa poultry industry for some years now and then formulated for pigeons at 4x the price no doubt but I would not be without it during racing season
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:30 pm

at the moment im giving ropa b and primalac alternate days, is this right ? or should I stick to one product mainly, then use the other maybe once or twice a week ?
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:13 pm

theirs no right or wrong david pre-biotics and probiotics work hand in hand some products contain both
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:03 am

David wrote:
at the moment im giving ropa b and primalac alternate days, is this right ? or should I stick to one product mainly, then use the other maybe once or twice a week ?

May I ask David  Smile  Smile  why do you bother to use any of it. As good as these items in question may appear, I consider a loft which is not into the racing mode I believe situation as such, like yours & so there fore such items are unnecessary for our birds which are living in a healthy enviroment etc & so I find very little reason for there use. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:57 am

its also good to put new imports on a course of these natural supplements before they go into the loft instead of treating them with meds ....I think david has a few newbies
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:11 am

Knackered wrote:
David wrote:
at the moment im giving ropa b and primalac alternate days, is this right ? or should I stick to one product mainly, then use the other maybe once or twice a week ?

May I ask David  Smile  Smile  why do you bother to use any of it. As good as these items in question may appear, I consider a loft which is not into the racing mode I believe situation as such, like yours & so there fore such items are unnecessary for our birds which are living in a healthy enviroment etc & so I find very little reason for there use. cheers

good question knackered, and i dont really have the answer apart from the fact our birds are naturally foragers and pick around either in the loft or in the garden where bacteria may be......pigeons do not have to race and be in the baskets to have worms, canker or cocci, and as we all know a pigeon can go from looking stunning one day to ill the next, so i personally think prevention is better than cure, and like darren says, i have newbies in my loft which although they look very healthy, it is best in my opinion to air on the side of caution because we never know what conditions they have lived in previously.

i think the days of just corn and clear water have long gone, pigeons need more to stay healthy, plus some illnesses are air born, not just by contact....thats just my view anyway, i could be totally wrong...LOL
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:06 pm

I beleve these products Primalac / Flightpath were both designed for the poultry industry and have now been crossed over to the pigeon world. They work by filling the intestine with good bacteria which should help stop the bad bacteria from getting in to cause trouble. Because these 2 brands were designed for the poultry industry they would of had to be proven and tested by the goverment which says alot more for them than all the other pills powders and potions you get for pigeons nowadays. I use flight path and the droppings look great which we use as a indication of health.
Does it make my birds fly better? Idont know.
Does it keep my birds from getting sick more often? I dont know.
What i do know is my birds look great fly well and iam happy giving it as a supplment.Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:12 am

David wrote:
Knackered wrote:
David wrote:
at the moment im giving ropa b and primalac alternate days, is this right ? or should I stick to one product mainly, then use the other maybe once or twice a week ?

May I ask David  Smile  Smile  why do you bother to use any of it. As good as these items in question may appear, I consider a loft which is not into the racing mode I believe situation as such, like yours & so there fore such items are unnecessary for our birds which are living in a healthy enviroment etc & so I find very little reason for there use. cheers

good question knackered, and i dont really have the answer apart from the fact our birds are naturally foragers and pick around either in the loft or in the garden where bacteria may
be......pigeons do not have to race and be in the baskets to have worms, canker or cocci, and as we all know a pigeon can go from looking stunning one day to ill the next, so i personally think prevention is better than cure, and like darren says, i have newbies in my loft which although they look very healthy, it is best in my opinion to air on the side of caution because we never know what conditions they have lived in previously.

i think the days of just corn and clear water have long gone, pigeons need more to stay healthy, plus some illnesses are air born, not just by contact....thats just my view anyway, i could be totally wrong...LOL

OK Smile Smile if it all makes you happy Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes why not. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:37 pm

Im glad to see this subject has come up because I have experimented with this exact thing the last few years because I wanted to know what was the truth...

I have always used products which kill bacteria good and bad thinking that surely that must be best as not only will it prevent and kill bad bacteria but also a bit of the good but with no effects on the birds.
So I used garlic, apple cider vinegar nearly every day and honey, all these supress bacteria or are killers of it.

So for a whole season I changed everything and used nothing in the water nothing on the corn and stopped what I had always used, then instead I used probiotics of all kinds including flight path to see if promoting and growing bacteria of the good kind would make the pigeons better for health, and see the difference.

Well my conclusions are that they are crap and don't help the pigeons at all, there is no health benefit and if any thing my birds are not as good as other seasons, and Im not talking about race results just general health.

I have always had a super healthy loft and birds regular testing and clean spotless top quality pigeons and loft so out side factors are not an affect.

I have now gone back to apple cider vinegar, honey but not the garlic, I have experimented with and without its use many times before and I think it does nothing, I believe its all in our minds and just we think it makes a difference but when you try it scientifically it fails.

I have always believed that a massive problem for pigeons is the production and growth of bacteria, because in the very cold winter months you know when the birds are actually living in a fridge they have perfect health and droppings, that's why we keep food in a fridge.

So I conclude that anything in the water or on corn which helps kill bacteria is good for pigeons and should be used, growing it even for the good is dangerous and should be avoided, if you use it and fly well I suggest you will become a champion when you get rid of probiotics from your flock. JMO, BUT TESTED.
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:27 pm

Interesting Martyn study study study
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:21 pm

Hi don, I know many will disagree with me and say its rubbish probiotics work, but they wont do what I have and try it, I couldn't care less pigeons for me is a hobby and I do lots of other things if I mess up a season to find the truth I will.

I am open to other opinions and always willing to try anything new, but I have found this out by trial and error and with an already super healthy loft, and I think its all in the mind and we like to think things are better than they are.

I would love to find a product that keeps my pigeons in sparking health 24-7 and a loft with no problems and sickness, but its not out there and neither are all the answers, and I don't have them either, but my loft will never buy a probiotic again, and the apple cider vinegar will be brought here by the tanker full.
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:57 pm

There was a "tonic" popular a few years ago mix of cider vinegar, honey and mollasses diluted in warm water then can't remember how many tablespoons to drinker. I was at a moot when Tony Marden Van Reets were winning all over and he said this was all his birds got apart from canker and wormer treatments.
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:39 pm

That's interesting, try and remember the name?
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:53 am

barnie wrote:
There was a "tonic" popular  a few years ago mix of cider vinegar, honey and mollasses diluted in warm water then can't remember how many tablespoons to drinker. I was at a moot when Tony Marden Van Reets were winning all over and he said this was all his birds got apart from canker and wormer treatments.


Interesting Barnie. Even I have seen how the Marden Van Reets flew etc & if one takes that he was being honest with his views, it all tells one Smile Smile how many flyers just waste their money Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad sadly, when a bargain ??? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes is advertised. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:46 am

Rudderfett wrote:
That's interesting, try and remember the name?

It wasn't a commercial product, he made it himself, I think it would be cheap enough to produce yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:18 pm

Well the honey and vinegar I can swear by and the van reet man and I agree there, the molasses on the other hand is just sugar and energy which they will get from the honey also.
So it sounds similar to what I already said and use.
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:40 pm

Am i right in thinking Molasses/honey are all high in suger which will help feed any yeast bacteria while the acidity in the vinager helps to kill the yeast bacteria? if this is the case you would have to get the amounts of each just right to give energy and kill bacteria or you could be tipping the balance one way or another. I prefer to give one thing at a time then you have a rough idear of what your trying to achive. JMO
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:51 pm

Holland and barret do something called honeygar which obviously is honey and vinegar.......also I would agree to an extent with chicken, things like honey could help or encourage bacteria to grow easily in the crop.
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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:58 pm

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PostSubject: Re: probiotics for pigeons   Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:02 pm

interesting martyn and as you say at least you gave it a go ....personally I do see your point of view and myself I do not use the probiotic unless I am racing as a top up day after the race of good bacteria.mother cider vinegar has bacteria that acts in a similar way to probiotics but I always find my birds are not keen to drink it... their are a lot of probiotics out their which are a rip off ...the one I use was tested on hens and pheasants for 3 years before it came on the market on over 50,000 birds so its not a product that's been thrown together on the back of the probiotic bandwagon and the results were very good even testing on birds exposed to salmonella and against birds not given the probiotic ,the results were very positive in favour of the birds given the probiotic
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