Advice needed.

Going to darken the youngsters this year. Start now or in April? Watched a few videos but no 2 the same. Would rather ask on here for practical experience. Thanks in advance.

I'm interested in the answers to Hal, we're going to darken ours this year , but like you say loads of different info out there, will be nice to hear the members views

I thought ybs went onto dark when the clocks altered, altho some go onto dark from weaning but ive never done this.

for me hal its best to get them on it end of march when all the ybs are weaned and drinking and eating well ...leave them on the dark until mid late june exposing the birds to more daylight hours over a 1 week period ...you could even put a light on late evening to imitate high summer once you have taken them off the system...as I seem to recall you wanting to enter a specialist race and by doing this they should hold their feather...as to what time of day to darken,well its optional but I like to exercise in the morning feed early afternoon and darken the loft at 4pm and take shutters off when its dark by doing it this way the birds wake to natural daylight ...it takes about 9 weeks for a body moult,so long as the darkness hours are longer than daylight the times of darkening are not crucial. I darken for 13 hours some do it for 15/16 hours but its not needed 13 hours is enough ...just my views on it atb

same here, just gone on it 14dark, 10 light, off it second week june

Thanks folks. very informative! Darkened most of it today. Or got it ready. Have some caulking to do. Cannot do it below freezing. Plus lights under the waterers shed some light. Should be unplugged by tomorrow. Hope to have full wing birds for the 500. Yearlings can do it so assume full wing young can also. If all works out will fly it.
Now. Here is something that has been nagging me. Years ago a fancier from West Hartlepool, my home town, lived near Toronto. He flew with his father over there. They did really well. So much so their loft was visited by the guy who wrote the eye sign book over there. Forget his name. He asked them if they picked by eye sign. Father said "No. I am blind."
Shocked the guy! Bishop, remember now. I digress.
Anyway, his son lived over here flew well over here. Died a few years ago. Talking with him one evening about old birds, racers on nest, keeping the lights on, small night lite, would it hasten the moult? He said no. Does not. I have found he was right. Now then. How dark is dark? Or can the same results attributed to the dark system be achieved by semi-dark? Does anyone know? Cannot find in searching. By the way, guy from West Harlepool, name was Bill Butterfield. Good friend of George Chuvalo, heavyweight who fought Ali.

loft does not have to be pitch black ...I do it so the ybs can still get a drink until true nightime ...I do it so you can just about read a newspaper with difficulty,good luck with the 500 hal

K thanks folks.

Me and the lad are biting the bullet and going on darkness this weekend, but, can anyone tell me will it stop birds dropping flights that have already dropped some, I ask because we've noticed a couple of our earlier bred ybs have lost a couple of flights on both wings 1 in particular has only got 7 flights to go on one wing and 8 on the other

Some of mine are one out. Would be interesting to know. However, can hold them back if need be.

I had this when I bred around xmas why I don't like to breed to early before darkening ..had some carry 3/4 nest flights til following year ...main thing is the body moult they can still go to race a flight down for the experience don't like sending on the last couple of flights though ...even breeding slightly later and going on dark 1 or 2 may throw flights not allways 100% I have found .

oldstrain wrote:

I had this when I bred around xmas why I don't like to breed to early before darkening ..had some carry 3/4 nest flights til following year ...main thing is the body moult they can still go to race a flight down for the experience don't like sending on the last couple of flights though ...even breeding slightly later and going on dark 1 or 2 may throw  flights not allways 100% I have found .

Totally useless information etc but at our meeting last night here to do with the virus situation one bloke mentioned he is just putting his 3rd round across now to his race loft etc to race them as old birds in July hopefully. Crazy lot, those 's .  

Thought there was a consensus to fly regardless of the virus in some clubs?
Personally I would not hesitate to fly. But JMO.

Knackered wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

I had this when I bred around xmas why I don't like to breed to early before darkening ..had some carry 3/4 nest flights til following year ...main thing is the body moult they can still go to race a flight down for the experience don't like sending on the last couple of flights though ...even breeding slightly later and going on dark 1 or 2 may throw  flights not allways 100% I have found .

Totally useless information etc but at our meeting last night here to do with the virus situation one bloke mentioned he is just putting his 3rd round across now to his race loft etc to race them as old birds in July hopefully. Crazy lot, those 's .  

absolute madness breeding to cull one would think

I read about shipping/virus some time ago. Nothing since. However at that time some fanciers said that the birds may get it anyway, so exposure now may build up some immunity. Others said why waste them, wait for a vaccine. I can see both sides of it. On the one hand exposure will kill or cure, losses may be high. On the other side, vaccination will probably save a lot of birds, expensive ones and dummies. My son is coming tomorrow so will ask how many vaccines he is now using on hogs. He runs a herd of about 3000, plus offspring. Chinese wrinkle (very high litter size) crossed with regular York/Landrace.
Very intense genetics, bio security etc,. Seems like a new virus every year. Animals and to a lesser extent, pigeons.

Here is my two penn'orth:-

Put your birds on the darkness system on 21st March (or as close after that as possible). There are a few fallacies regarding the darkness system:-

1. The darkness loft has to be pitch black - WRONG - the section that you are going to darken only needs to be about as dark as a medium dark night. The birds must to be able to see a drinker if they want one.

2. A darkness section has to be locked down as tight as a drum - WRONG - you have to remember, when you are thinking of darkening your young birds, that you need to think very carefully about air circulation/ventilation.

3. Darkness birds must be 'on the dark' for 14+ hours a day - WRONG - they only need to be darkened one hour more than they are not darkened.

So, this is what I do - I feed my young birds at 16:15 - 16:30 hours. My young bird loft is a standard sloping roof, two-section loft with a corridor in front of the two sections with two front sliding doors. I darken them at 17:00 hours by covering their section front with a dark blue sheet which is suspended on a pole from the ceiling. I also use plywood to cover the two windows.

Just before we go to bed, around 22:00 hours, one of us takes down the bed sheet but leaves the plywood panels in place until the morning.

Therefore, the birds are darkened sufficiently from 17:00 hours and see a natural dawn/daylight even though it might be delayed by up to an hour because of the plywood on the windows.

Removing the bed sheet allows for better air circulation/ventilation.

Most people stop darkening their birds on the longest day, 21st June. Whether you add artificial light after that so they have 14-16 hours of daylight as it is on the longest day, or not, is another question entirely.

Whether you train your young birds whilst they are on the darkness system is also a question for debate.

Personally, when they come off the darkness on 21st June, I have not as yet added artificial light. I just let their daylight hours shorten naturally.

I also train my birds whilst they are on the darkness system. I know a couple of people in Holland who race young birds extremely well who train their birds whilst they are still on the darkness. Furthermore it has absolutely no detrimental effect on the birds in later life.

To fully understand the darkness, one has to remember the reason why the darkness system works, and that is to cause hormonal changes within the pigeon.

When we raced before, we won every young bird race in our club, often taking the first four positions. We topped the Fed a few times and won the end of season young bird Fed Championship from Picauville, France. On that occasion, there were only three birds home in race time, and we had two of them. Our first bird was 20 minutes in front of our second bird, and our second bird was an hour and 10 minutes in front of the next bird.

I am not saying this to brag, just that the young bird system I use has proven to work. Obviously, times of darkening and times of un-darkening may have to alter during the year to take into consideration the different countries that fanciers live in, and the daylight hours they experience.

I trust this helps.

Phil

Very informative. As mentioned before, have small exhaust fans in each loft. Used very rarely. So ventilation not a problem.