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 I have a Dilemma

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blueskylofts
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PostSubject: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:23 am

Suppose you have a bird that comes from a line of long or ultra long distance specialists, either a pure bred from a long distance family, or a family that a fancier has created especially for the longer distances. This bird is constantly late back from training and/or races.

It always turns up but maybe hours late or even the day after. My question is - do you persevere with it knowing that birds of that family don't come into their own or mature until they are for example 2 years old? Or do you get rid of it?

As I see it, there are two ways of looking at this dilemma.

1. The bird is stupid and it couldn't find its way out of a paper bag therefore it must go. OR

2. At the moment, it is constantly late from training or races but it always finds its way home and, in doing so, has probably learned a lot more about its area, where home is from lots of different places, and has possibly a picture in its mind of a lot more of the countryside in which it lives. Therefore it is worth keeping, trusting that it will come into its own when it gets older or matures.

Your thoughts and points of view on this subject would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:37 am

Easy to put an argument for both as you have done. My view is if you have space give it a chance that way you will know for sure. Don't breed off it just because of the blood line if its junk no use putting bad blood back in. This is just how I would deal with the situation others will have other idea's. Good luck.
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:47 am

Give it a chance. Perhaps not motivated or such. Would not breed off it yet. or if you have. who knows how they will turn out? Certainly it is not a flock flier! For better or worse!!
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:19 am

halcanada wrote:
Give it a chance. Perhaps not motivated or such. Would not breed off it yet. or if you have. who knows how they will turn out? Certainly it is not a flock flier! For better or worse!!
True "give it a chance" Smile Smile I was the dumbest of the dumbest  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes when young here etc lol! lol! lol! & I suspect most here now have figured out how I finished up towards the end as such Wink Wink.
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:15 am

I was in the same boat as you Knackered when I was at school. Called thick and stupid and sent to the back of the classroom.

And look at me now - I have a Bachelor of Arts Degree with Honours, I hold a Private Pilot's Licence, I am an International Master SCUBA Diving Instructor, and ran my own very successful business as a Jewellery Designer and Maker for many years - and still know NOTHING! Ha ha!

However, regarding the pigeon in question - it may have answered its own question - It didn't come back from a training toss yesterday, even though it has been to the lib point before.

There is time yet, but I don't hold out much hope.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:56 pm

Open mouth and insert foot!

About 40 minutes after I wrote my last posting - the bird in question landed on the loft.

It came in right away and I managed to catch it. When I basketed the bird yesterday afternoon, it was nice and rounded - now it is like a rail.

Goodness knows how far it has flown. I put it in a basket just so I could give it something to eat and drink without the other birds in its section eating as well. It was Soooo thirsty but not so peckish, however it did eat a bit.

I guess it is just knackered.

We will see in the next day or so. It is a hen, so I am expecting it to bounce back quickly.

Phil

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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:41 pm

they don't take long to lose that body weight eh ....at least its coming back and on its own maybe try pairing the hen up or show her to a cock before you go on a toss ,it may make the difference
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:16 pm

phil, ive read your posts and cant see if you say the bird is paired or a widowhood cock...? if it is a widowhood cock, sometimes when training or racing, people make the mistake of showing the hen too much, or not enough....
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blueskylofts
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:00 pm

This particular hen is one of only four racing hens we have.

We have eight cocks and four hens. Originally we had six hens and four cocks but a coule of th hens had to go. So we are left with just the four.

This particular hen was paired to one of our cocks in the racing loft. The only birds we have to race are birds which we bred ourselves last year. So they are all yearlings, on paper. Although some of them were not even born this time last year!

Anyway, this hen was paired to one of our racing cocks and her first round she only laid one egg. I remember it distinctly, as it was smeared with a bit of blood when I first saw it. She didn't ever sit on that egg and never laid another one to go with it. So we chucked it away. After a while, she laid another egg and her second egg of the second round had a wobbly shell, so we disposed of that and gave her the one real egg she had laid and one pot egg. But she never sat on those. In the end she was the only hen in the race loft that had eggs, even though she wasn't really sitting them properly, nor was her cock, when it came time to split the cocks and hens up.

Our idea at the moment (and it might change) is to race our cocks and hens on the roundabout system for the first few races.

Bearing in mind that all our birds are yearlings, I won't be pushing them too far this year, but may put them on a full natural method for their last couple of races. We will probably only take them to around 280 miles (450 kilometres) this year.

During the couple or three training tosses she has had, I haven't bothered putting her with the cock before they go training or let her see her cock when she comes back.

Having said that, today when she came through the sputnik she went straight to the cocks section and stood there. Maybe next time I take her training I will show her the cock before she goes and let her cuddle up a bit to him on her return.

We start racing in two weeks' time, and knowing that none of our birds raced last year at all, or got in a racing pannier, I would just like to give them a little bit of extra education.

Thanks everybody for the interest you have shown. I will keep you posted.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:12 pm

all trial and error phil some birds take a bit of working out ...good luck
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:28 am

blueskylofts wrote:
Open mouth and insert foot!

About 40 minutes after I wrote my last posting - the bird in question landed on the loft.

It came in right away and I managed to catch it.  When I basketed the bird yesterday afternoon, it was nice and rounded - now it is like a rail.

Goodness knows how far it has flown.  I put it in a basket just so I could give it something to eat and drink without the other birds in its section eating as well.  It was Soooo thirsty but not so peckish, however it did eat a bit.

I guess it is just knackered.

We will see in the next day or so.  It is a hen, so I am expecting it to bounce back quickly.

Phil

Knackered Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Smile Smile when anything reaches that stage Phil sadly etc lol! lol! lol! best place is the bin bounce bounce or the equivalent as such Smile Smile.   cheers
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:30 pm

Long distance birds should only be a few minutes behind sprinters or with them from a 40 mile toss check it for a injury if no signs I would give it a few more tosses and if no improvement keep it at home but not in the team that's what I would do
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:51 am

markevans wrote:
Long distance birds should only be a few minutes behind sprinters or with them from a 40 mile toss check it for a injury if no signs I would give it a few more tosses and if no improvement keep it at home but not in the team that's what I would do
Maybe so Smile Smile best to weed a flock etc like weeding a lawn from my perspective. Keep the slow coaches in the one team as such & more than likely you will find more slow coaches as the season progresses, more so than those that will get faster I suspect over time.
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:14 am

I think you are talking about an IDEAL world Knackered - where everyone has plenty of room and plenty of money to build (or have built) lots of lofts.

I reckon I have more room than most to expand our lofts etc, but still it has to stop somewhere.

We already have two big lofts - one 20 foot by 10 foot - One 15 foot x 12.5 foot, one medium size loft - 10 foot by 8 foot and a second Stock loft, for stock hens - 9 foot by 7 foot. Plus a storage shed - 12 foot by 10 foot and a caravan which acts as another storage area.

That is a big investment, or just a lot of money spent. Not to mention the room it all takes up.

If one wanted to keep the slower birds together and let the faster birds have their own section, that would mean, yet another section that would be needed. Is it worth it??

As you say - WEEDING is the only way to build a good strong FAST and intelligent family of pigeons. Maybe keeping the slower ones is a waste of time and money.

I believe, in this day and age, there is no room for slow pigeons. A velocity of 850 ypm is no good any more. You are looking at speeds in excess of 1,100 yards per minute in most cases.

In our case, regarding this hen that is always late coming back, I have decided not to get rid of it, and use it primarily as the hen to one of our racing cocks. There is a possibility that I might put it into a few races and if it gets lost then so be it.

That's it from me on this subject for now.

Phil

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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:38 am

blueskylofts wrote:
Open mouth and insert foot!

About 40 minutes after I wrote my last posting - the bird in question landed on the loft.

It came in right away and I managed to catch it.  When I basketed the bird yesterday afternoon, it was nice and rounded - now it is like a rail.

Goodness knows how far it has flown.  I put it in a basket just so I could give it something to eat and drink without the other birds in its section eating as well.  It was Soooo thirsty but not so peckish, however it did eat a bit.

I guess it is just knackered.

We will see in the next day or so.  It is a hen, so I am expecting it to bounce back quickly.

Phil

lol! lol! lol! that degree as such Phil Smile Smile didn't appear to help much etc Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes. But as you know Wink Wink 14/16 oz's of feathers can make the smartest of the smart type, at times look rather thick/dumb Wink Wink.  cheers
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PostSubject: Re: I have a Dilemma   Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:28 am

Knackered wrote:
blueskylofts wrote:
Open mouth and insert foot!

About 40 minutes after I wrote my last posting - the bird in question landed on the loft.

It came in right away and I managed to catch it.  When I basketed the bird yesterday afternoon, it was nice and rounded - now it is like a rail.

Goodness knows how far it has flown.  I put it in a basket just so I could give it something to eat and drink without the other birds in its section eating as well.  It was Soooo thirsty but not so peckish, however it did eat a bit.

I guess it is just knackered.

We will see in the next day or so.  It is a hen, so I am expecting it to bounce back quickly.

Phil

lol! lol! lol! that degree as such Phil Smile Smile didn't appear to help much etc Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes. But as you know Wink Wink 14/16 oz's of feathers can make the smartest of the smart type, at times look rather thick/dumb Wink Wink.  cheers


Well said Knackered!
Phil
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