Corn again.

Setting a new guy up with birds. All free. Told him stock up on feed if possible. The corn coming off now is checked for Mycotoxins. Bad year here for it. Some farmers will go broke. It will not get in to human food because of Canadian regulations. Some with lower amounts will get in to animal feed. Standard practise. As for the feed companies? Who knows? So. My birds now are ok on the mix I buy. But in a few months the corn may be contaminated. That used for pigeon feed. Europe should be fine. Wheat was good this year, no Mycotoxins. However. Will eventually cut out the corn. In the UK years ago I fed them just wheat. Shilling a small bag. My birds do not like wheat. So what I intend to do is this. Stock up on corn from last years crop. Buy wheat. Then some milo and other grains. Mix my own. Easy enough. Birds do not eat it they will starve. Not likely though.
However, this from a poultry site regarding Mycotoxins.
"The use of clay-based materials for toxin binding is not new. For centuries, humans and animals have been reported to eat clay minerals, a process known as geophagy. The consumption of edible clays for various purposes by people and animals in developing countries (and the United States) is common and in most cases is considered to be beneficial to health

The inclusion of non-nutritive clay minerals in the diet of animals has been widely adopted for reducing toxin bioavailability and exposure from contaminated feeds." I use Stable Boy. Clay powder floor dressing.

What about feeding pellets,heat treated so should be ok,just thought of summit while typing..
Have you used pig meal in any form Hal?

interesting read hal ...I give clay on a sunday every sunday to the birds and would not be without it they go straight down for it at breeding time its available 24/7

Pigeons on completely open hole have access to all the minerals and other things THEY think necessary for good health, I know of very good fanciers who crush old clay bricks along with the lime mortar and let them pick at it at will.

As for feed, years ago there was no polishing etc; {can only take away and not put anything in and it could be taking out the good as well as any bad)

Farm beans, wheat, and peas along with barley was reaily available from the farms, when intensive farming was not the norm, very few problems and the pigeons were mainly healthy.


Today is a very different ball game regarding feed.

Under normal circumstances a wild animal will cope with minor defects and problems in the wild with regard to feed.

When you confine a pigeon it depends entirely on the fancier to replicate as near as possible the desirable qualities with regard to it's whole welfare, including feed.

The problem is we do not know all that makes our feathered friends tick.

I came to the conclusion that it was best to give them a good selection of feed all the year round and not muck about.

It worked for me and I never had one complaint from the pigeons.

Regards.

True Misty. Remember, and have it some where when two eminent Guys 'Walker and another said regards adding oil and such for the moult or racing saying Beans etc. have an abudance or oil and everything a bird needs.

Gary Edmunds - the best fancier ever -- along with Jimmy White of Scotland said 'I just buy a no one mix - Farmer - and that's it. With good clean water. Yes I know that they will peck up in the gutters and drink from puddles first chance, So they know better than me... But don't know what I have in store for them come week end. But I just feed the same for racing breed etc.
Barry- he uncle the same... Was a time when Barry brought all his feeds from a health shop... Later saying 'What a waste of time, money and effort that was …. He carried on winner when buying farm feeds.
Indeed most records in the club and fed are still held by them two. Barry would say 'Weer Gary was unbeatable on his day, which at all levels and distances he was. He would enter an open and Barry would put his money on the bird... not birds as Gary nigh always knew it seemed which one.. Tightest mate I ever had was Gary. Would go into the club and whisper in turn the 'Main Stayers' who never shone 'Back my Ring number **********. they would take the pools lol.
Barry told me many tell tale signs and means of being right which order the birds would arrive. Uncanny, but one learned a lot more by doing as such. Indeed is a boon to knowing your birds and merits etc. etc.

I doubt if it will affect any one in Europe. Seems to be just this part of Canada and some US states close by. Crop on this land about a 1000 acres is free from it. From what I can see. It was sprayed to prevent it a few times. Never remember corn in the UK for pigeons. Maize.

We could get Dog Tooth maize in the old days and also horse beans.

Daz, I feel we both suffer from the same illness, FRUSTRATION.

You cannot get through to some fanciers that if a pigeon is born with a 50cc engine all things being equal it will never beat one with a 100cc engine

But both can be treated in a manner that neither can reach their true potencial, and in some circumstances bad practice to the 100cc engine could result in the 50cc engine beating it.


A pigeons full potential is determined at birth and no additives, training etc; can make it go beyond.


So the art is to get the maximum potential in the easiest manner for both fancier and pigeon.

And it is not by filling them with a load of tripe and making them sick of the basket etc;

But then some people never learn.


Regards.

True, exactly. Had a fancier that said to me a good few years ago 'If you could, by whatever means, improve a pigeon performance (-- if possible)  - by 20 or more percent. Be it a bad or good, or even an exceptional pigeon …  then in that case a better pigeon will improve the same, so nothing gained, but then one has to take into account the 'Fancier and his ability in getting the best out of them'.
Then the same equates regards a fancier.   Likewise a system , but above all the management!
Of course only healthy and conditioned pigeons win races... Not paper bag blow homes of course.

So from birth a pigeon progresses to it's own strengths. Also it's detrimental abilities and health.

Constitutions, natural built up immunities. You job is the three C's … or 5 when getting to be good. A home that they love and want to be at... you will never ever motivate a pigeon to home if not interested... There I go again, this post could go on for pages lol.

Agree Daz, most things have been covered many times over but I have always attempted to point out the waste of good pigeons by bad practice and advised better consideration of our feathered friends.


The best motivation is the love of their home and the best way to give a happy home is to interfere with them as little as possible.


Widowhood and the Darkness systems are not within this remit, they cannot possibly help a pigeons love of home, they are like holding a gun to their heads.


They fly not for love of home but through fear.

I laugh when some fanciers point out how content their pigeons are when they come and sit on their shoulder, they would do exactly the same to a complete stranger who had a few peanuts in the hand.

My pigeons would go about their own business all day and totally ignore me unless I showed an interest in them with afew t*t bits.

Come race day they would fly back not to me but to their extended family, all I had to do was provide a home they thought they should not be away for long.

But it takes all sorts and look what has happened to the sport and the pigeons.


Regards.

The 3 C's. Contentment, condition and control. Then continuality, consistency and the ... There's a few more C's yet.

COMMON SENSE, being one, Daz, sadly lacking today.


Regards.

Probably the most ignored let alone understood I'm afraid.
How many more C's eh!

I have often said, and truly believe, especially in the past, every LOFT has, or have had a truly very good pigeon. Unfortunately a very large percentage hadn't. had the slightest knowledge sad to say.

Daz wrote:

I have often said, and truly believe, especially in the past, every LOFT has, or have had a truly very good pigeon. Unfortunately a very large percentage hadn't. had the slightest knowledge sad to say.

Yes! But one must compete with them all to find them. Eye sign, wing theory, not a sure fire way to find them. Strongest indication would be parentage but again, not 100%.

Could not agree more Daz, there are more good pigeon ruined through bad practice than those that achieve their full potential, and I agree that most lofts will at some time have very good pigeons and ruin them.

Looked out of the window, getting away from our sport, and a young cock pheasant was just outside the window, if my wife had not seen it at the same time I would not have believed it.

The nearest shoot is about a couple of miles away and I think it must have been hit and just managed to reach our garden which is not very big, I tried to find it but to no avail, it could be hiding in the hedge some where.

Put some corn down but the other birds do not understand it was not for them.


Would have willingly adopted it and given it a good home.

Regards.

Was a time when one would hide behind the Shoots Guns and grab a pheasant / Partridge that dropped some 200 yards or more behind.

Now most 'Kills' are abandoned as not a lot of need. Ok a percentage are taken, and the keeper plucks - via a machine - and draws and sells to restaurants etc.
Mind I bet the Keeper / landowner will be peeved at that.
Not many butchers have them hanging up outside the shop etc. these days either.

Had a couple of very good friends who were head keepers. one boxed fpr me, the other was one we went back for a long time before he was even a keeper, Poacher yes lol.

Well was visiting one time and he had loads of unwanted game birds. So I took 10 - 12 brace to local pubs I frequented to GIVE away! Many went OHHHHHH I'd love to ... Can you pluck and draw... or more precise. 'Can you oven prepare then for me, as I couldn't ... One brace was taken. Others went in others freezers. later they thaw and Skinned with the feathers in one go. the don't cook so good though. Mind I aint fond of Pheasants to say the least. Partridge I liked... But don't have now.
Was a time when Pheasants were caught by hand... a lot better and bled straight off... none of the stupidity of letting the blood rott the flesh. Likewisewase rabbits. Caught by hand.

When young had a policy of my own regarding animals for food, IF I COULD CATCH IT WAS MINE. if the game keeper could catch me ?????, far too fast for him.

WE were very rarely without rabbit stew on the go.

I had ferrets and purse nets from as far back as I can remember until recent times.

Never tasted any game bird, but had plenty of fun with some very nice GAME BIRDS.


Had a run through Forge Valley with my wife last week, saw about 50 pheasants that had just been released, with a bit of corn you could have hand fed them, not my type of activity, release tame birds, frighten up and shoot them AAH AAH,


Regards.

Had ferrets and purse nets. Rabbits do not burrow here. Ground to frozen.

Done a bit of "i walked by night" foldy .410 in the coat.
Ferrets,nets,snares,dogs various
Made feed stations for rabbits n pheasants but was only pot hunting, 1 in the freezer 1 in the pot.
Pheasant (cock,breast) and rabbit pie short crust pastry, could eat a bucket full.

Those were the days, so sad to see the youth of today walking about like zombies with some kind of technical appliance stuffed in their ear and another in the hand etc;

WE old boys have certainly much to be grateful for, (and girls) to have experienced the vastly different aspects of life encountered over the last 80 years or so.


Would not like to have been born in recent times.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Those were the days,  so sad to see the youth of today walking about like zombies with some kind of technical appliance stuffed in their ear and another in the hand etc;

WE old boys have certainly much to be grateful for, (and girls) to have experienced the vastly different aspects of life encountered over the last 80 years or so.


Would not like to have been born in recent times.

Regards.

Had a situation here just the other night Misty unfortunately, I'm  . 2 mates etc went out to a party to have a good time as such to-gether. Sadly one got high on ice & killed his mate in a ice type rage. Took 6 police to bring him under control when they turned up on the scene. A bit of the old type weed     "Hal's special"     never caused such trouble for me     when I was some what younger here    .  

Never liked rabbit... couldn't get past the smell, like crab.

But like the pigeons of the Silo's and church they certainly served a purpose.
Remember when first ferreted and using Flans, I guess you call Purses, I caught the rabbit but didn't (Then have the heart … so let them go... But then the need of a few bob took over lol.

Would flan the railway lines about 1- 30 to 2 O'clock. Nip back and relief some from the flans caught going out. Then reset to cat any coming back. Flan up again and put a couple of old ferrets either side and let them work towards each other. Staff on shoulders and many trips to the van eh! Up the club with them before one!

Very sad Knackered.

We are having a spate of drug fueled killings in several towns and cities, young kids being used as distributers and killing each other.

Some users no doubt do suffer dire consequences but it is the suppliers that are causing all the problems.

Never ever tried any drug other than curative from a doctor so I do not know what is involved in taking them but having seen some results that must be obvious to others cannot understand why anyone would do so.


It does not help when you see celebrities that young people look up to stoned out of their stupid heads on drugs.



Cannot see a solution being on the horizon, those in power too interested in PC.



Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Very sad Knackered.

We are having a spate of drug fueled killings in several towns and cities, young kids being used as distributers and killing each other.

Some users no doubt do suffer dire consequences but it  is the suppliers that are causing all the problems.

Never ever tried any drug other than curative from a doctor so I do not know what is involved in taking them but having seen some results that must be obvious to others cannot understand why anyone would do so.


It does not help when you see celebrities that young people look up to stoned out of their stupid heads on drugs.



Cannot see a solution being on the horizon, those in power too interested in PC.



Regards.

Feel much the same way as you Misty etc . Unfortunately we now live in the age of excuses as such I suggest I'm when people get caught breaking the law. Pot/Ice type of thing. Daddy gave me the belt when I was young & my teacher sent me to the corner, for being naughty & so I was deprived of a normal child hood . Legal Eagles have a special book I suspect these days. Heading, 101 excuses & to be used for all clients on court day, no matter what the charge may be    .

2 cases today here. Woman stabs another woman to death in a store. Not guilty, brain was not working. Another guy, not guilty killing his father. Was too drunk to know what he was doing. Do the crime do the time!!!!