No young birds 2021

Good to kick different opinions about barnie maybe will help in the long run.

Every problem has  a cause, including YBS, once let loose it has no reason not to pick on any animal species etc; likely to be affected choose how kept.

It is the cause that is the worry.

Widowhood and the Darkness systems cannot be of any benifit in any way to a pigeons long term health and well being.

All (or the majority) of the sports health problems have arrisen since we adopted the continental methods, of that there is no doubt.


When the money mad went continental their pigeons, as I wrote in the BHW many years ago needed constant monthy medication or they would not survive,
this from a Coninental friend.

One can pick the odd case of this fancier and that fancier doing this or that but it changes nothing regarding the overall deterioration of our pigeons health.

You get exceptions to the rule in most cases involving animals.

Time to stop making exuses me thinks and accept the sport has been thrown to the dogs by commercialism and greed, and our pigeons are an unhealthy species.

One swallow does not a summer make, one or two odd occasions when a pigeon confounds the norm does not in any way change the whole.


Regards.

thing is it all gets distorted this so called young bird sickness which is adeno/coli adeno is indeed a virus different type in old birds called adeno type 2 and usually effects yearlings who never had it as a yb but with young uns fanciers seem to think any ailment is down to young bird sickness(adeno/coli) one thing is for sure if yer breeders cant breed well without all the meds most fanciers give prior to pairing then theres something amiss in there constitution ,they have not been around any others birds all autumn/ winter and if they cant cope in there own enviroment then surely they are not worth breeding off ...

I'm sticking with my flies are carrying it theory man made virus side effect of agricultural crop spraying or genetically modified crops.


I'll put some fly papers up next year see how it goes. Rebrand them with my name on and make a fortune

Nice thought barnie, will only invest when you have some results.

Choose whats, what, I hope you have a good season all round barnie.

Just wish you had experienced the sport in the late thirties, different ball game all together.

Keep up the good work.

Regards.

oldstrain wrote:

thing is it all gets distorted this so called young bird sickness which is adeno/coli adeno is indeed a virus different type in old birds called adeno type 2 and usually effects yearlings who never had it as a yb but with young uns fanciers seem to think any ailment is down to young bird sickness(adeno/coli) one thing is for sure if yer breeders cant breed well without all the meds most fanciers give prior to pairing then theres something amiss in there constitution ,they have not been around any others birds all autumn/ winter and if they cant cope in there own enviroment then surely they are not worth breeding off ...

never had it to my knowledge. Lots of pesticides and insecticdes sprayed around here. Gave up meds over 20 years ago.

if you have a look at adeno virus all the sympthoms of whats seen in the loft point to that along with there behaviour of acting confused/not listening ...flies may well carry the virus which weakens the bird then the coli kicks in
jmo mind you ,good topic to discuss and some interesting points of view ,alot of fanciers would not know cocci from canker and try to play vet or bin man so these topics may just help us all eh ...valuable topic indeed

I understand what people are meaning about natural resistance and mis-use of medicines, especially anti-biotics.
But look at some of the developing countries, no off the shelf medicines or antibiotics, drink from a stream, no toilets or showers like we have, the list goes on: they have it rough for want of a better description. But thousands get wiped out by viruses every year, just by being non surgical or even dirty compared to modern standards in the way you live, doesn't stop Ebola, smallpox, yellow fever, measles, Zica virus and everything else they suffer. No resistance, and I think it's the same with pigeons today, for whatever reason they can all get young bird sickness regardless of how they are kept, fed and looked after. The biggest problem is fanciers who have it and don't even know they got it sending to races. Just because there's no corn thrown up on the perches doesn't mean they haven't got the virus. Mine had it this year but only a couple were throwing up.

barnie wrote:

I understand what people are meaning about natural resistance and mis-use of medicines, especially anti-biotics.
But look at some of the developing countries, no off the shelf medicines or antibiotics, drink from a stream, no toilets or showers like we have, the list goes on: they have it rough for want of a better description. But thousands get wiped out by viruses every year, just by being non surgical or even dirty compared to modern standards in the way you live, doesn't stop Ebola, smallpox, yellow fever, measles, Zica virus and everything else they suffer. No resistance, and I think it's the same with pigeons today, for whatever reason they can all get young bird sickness regardless of how they are kept, fed and looked after. The biggest problem is fanciers who have it and don't even know they got it sending to races. Just because there's no corn thrown up on the perches doesn't mean they haven't got the virus. Mine had it this year but only a couple were throwing up.

yeah true colin...some ybs dont even seem to be effected by it either but must be carrying it eh ,i think alot of yb loses are down to herpes virus to but thats another story eh

barnie wrote:

I understand what people are meaning about natural resistance and mis-use of medicines, especially anti-biotics.
But look at some of the developing countries, no off the shelf medicines or antibiotics, drink from a stream, no toilets or showers like we have, the list goes on: they have it rough for want of a better description. But thousands get wiped out by viruses every year, just by being non surgical or even dirty compared to modern standards in the way you live, doesn't stop Ebola, smallpox, yellow fever, measles, Zica virus and everything else they suffer. No resistance, and I think it's the same with pigeons today, for whatever reason they can all get young bird sickness regardless of how they are kept, fed and looked after. The biggest problem is fanciers who have it and don't even know they got it sending to races. Just because there's no corn thrown up on the perches doesn't mean they haven't got the virus. Mine had it this year but only a couple were throwing up.

agree to a certain extent colin, too "surgical" isnt good sometimes........but some of these thrid world countries who sh*t and p*ss in their own drinking water and have animals doing the same, have alsorts of desease etc.

i dont clean my loft out every day like some, i try to keep them reasonably clean, but dont stress too much over it .

Foresight better than hindsight.

Said in 1975 that clinical conditions in lofts would ruin natural immunuty as would 
constant pre treatments, for potential problems and curing desease carrying pigeons that should have been de selectd, but unforetunately, ( mainly due to paying stupid prices for them)  they were and have been since bred from and younsters sold to recover costs etc; not to mention making a profit.

Do this over even a short period and you get your come upance over 45 0dd years or more and we are lucky to have any naturally healthy pigeons.

No good trying to compare what goes on in other countries with our feathered friends.

Although just the same applies in the poor countries, the survival of the fittest under trying circumstances and not self inflicted, but due to circumstances, our pigeons natural health has been ruined by fanciers interfering with nature.

If it was done as I suggested in a OL experiment, treat only for the compulsary
vacination and nothing else and see how many were left at the end, would be very  suprized if any made the fianal.

Keeping a spotless loft is the worst possible means of having immune and healthy pigeons, and would not believe anyone doing so for any length of time do not have health problems.

When townies take over a derilict building or in a church ( and I have seen droppings in one church inches high built up over years) they are in better condition in many ways than many fanciers pigeons, in every way.

A pigeons droppings must be benificial in some way, even woodies have their droppings piled up all round the nest, other birds take them from their  nests.

A healthy pigeon fed properly will have semi hard droppings, these if left alone will harden and form deep litter, and this is the best deep litter but must be kept completely dry. ( I added sand and lime ).

Just wish fanciers would not speculate on matters nothing to do with the manner fanciers have ruined the sport and in particular the health of our feathered friends and concentrate on making sure it survives as a sport.

Regards.

oldstrain wrote:

barnie wrote:

I understand what people are meaning about natural resistance and mis-use of medicines, especially anti-biotics.
But look at some of the developing countries, no off the shelf medicines or antibiotics, drink from a stream, no toilets or showers like we have, the list goes on: they have it rough for want of a better description. But thousands get wiped out by viruses every year, just by being non surgical or even dirty compared to modern standards in the way you live, doesn't stop Ebola, smallpox, yellow fever, measles, Zica virus and everything else they suffer. No resistance, and I think it's the same with pigeons today, for whatever reason they can all get young bird sickness regardless of how they are kept, fed and looked after. The biggest problem is fanciers who have it and don't even know they got it sending to races. Just because there's no corn thrown up on the perches doesn't mean they haven't got the virus. Mine had it this year but only a couple were throwing up.

yeah true colin...some ybs dont even seem to be effected by it either but must be carrying it eh ,i think alot of yb loses are down to herpes virus to but thats another story eh

Yes Darren herpes virus different ball game, by the time you realise what your birds have it's too late, couple of days and game over for the majority. It's an awful virus, have first hand experience hope never repeated.

Had a good look around regarding the fact that many pigeons (if not most) carry different deseases and their immune system deals with it to the extent  that it never shows or affects them or interferes with performance until the immune system cannot cope.

That just re- enforces the opinion that it is the lack of a strong immune system that is the problem  ruined by fanciers inapropriate management.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Had a good look around regarding the fact that many pigeons (if not most) carry different deseases and their immune system deals with it to the extent  that it never shows or affects them or interferes with performance until the immune system cannot cope.

That just re- enforces the opinion that it is the lack of a strong immune system that is the problem  ruined by fanciers inapropriate management.

Regards.

Would be a bit of a real eye opener somehow I suspect Misty if we actually knew what was being pumped into many of the birds in some of these One Loft Races these days. Most say they have a Vet on hand there if required, if you believe what they say My bones tell me here most of them on average are not worth a crumpet when you see the losses there that continue year on year    . & take care.

Other factor for losses is amount of poor pigeons sent to one lofters. Many send on pedigree alone.

A simple fact, not often heard or said, but very often seen and not understood.

A fancier buys in youngsters, or stock birds. Great looking and handles well. Yet in no time they are not well, falling about etc. etc.
What does the fancier think? who does he blame?

the former owner he bought off. Often slates them, even writes a disgust in their their regards. Oft even writes as such!. You've all seen and heard this.

But the truth matter is simple. All lofts carried their own disease /ailments etc.
Most become immune to such... but a foreign bird isn't and won't be. the bird comes in is quickly under attack and their immune system can't hack it.


Also further, too many birds today are held up via drugs and remedies. No natural immunities are given a chance to build etc,

When I brought the first batch of these in as babies in April I also brought a bag of shit from the breeders loft. Mixed this with clean straw and sprinkled with diatomaceous powder now and again and weaned them bedded on this.
Made no difference within a month or just over they all got YB sickness, 5 so bad they didn't make it.

What I did notice was the 3 late ones that I got in mid June never ailed at all, 2 of these from a different loft altogether and 1 from the original batch loft?

Afraid barnie our feathered friends have been treated in so many adverse manners in different lofts that you are lucky to find one with pigeons that have natural immunity.

The best way is to persevere with pigeons you have if they have the genes to produce winners, do not introduce any until you have no health problems and then only after isolating any introductions in a seperate compartment and see if they show any adverse health problems, under your methods.

This takes time and very little time to ruin a pigeons constitution by bad management.

Swapping and changing methods and introducing new pigeons all the time  is the road to ruin in the long term.

You may have  spates of winning but not for any length of time and cetainly not reliable healthy pigeons.


Regards.

We buy ybs in every single year and yes we have problems but I blame that on giving our birds crap every week.. until recently I never treated our birds like I do now . Canker twice a year , worms ect once but not its every bloody month because these top men have knacked the sport up giving them other stuff just to get that bit extra out of them , then you have the flyers who put unhealthy birds on the baskets on a Friday   full of corn then puke up and your birds eat that .. I got parathyroid about 8 or 9 years ago and it wiped up out nearly . Don't get we wrong o do believe you have to do your homework and go to top lofts in the hope they look after their birds but in my opinion you have to try and better yourself every year . Its no good relying on the same family year in year out . We have got better and better every year buying in and long may it continue,  but as mentioned you are taking a chance,  but again that's what we enjoy trying other birds . We have got birds in and thought no thanks and they don't last long .

A successful fancier is one who gets more enjoyment out of the sport than the effort put in.

If you enjoy introductions every year and get the amount of enjoyment relative to the effort put in you are a success irrrespective of any wins.

Just hope next years introductions prove the goods.

One of the happiest fancier I ever knew only won one race all his life what he did win was a lot of respect.

Regards.

the few times ive raced, ive got more pleasure out of seeing them come home........never been too bothered about prizes

one of the last times i raced, i think i got half a dozen come together , they sat on the loft looking at me, not interested in trapping, so i just left them and watched them enjoying the sun ....found out later they would have been well up in the prizes

Thats the way to do it David.

As much, sometimes more, seeing the last one back

Regards.

Well as I say, different viruses and ailment, which they are not immune to.

Most likely the loft is/has been held up via treatments.

I would give them a chance to get immunities.

Very much a man of my own heart.
Was a time - first starting up o own I really looked forward to y/b racing... that faded over time etc.

O/B entails a lot more observation etc. etc and ...

Sorry but I would be very disappointed if I only ever had one win . I put my birds in to win not home   . I know some like to see them come home but not us .. got to win everything I take part in no matter what.  We spend a lot if money time ect so I was a reward at the end of it . The win ...  never been in it like some for money , its just that win that matters

Everyone to their own way of thinking and gaining enjoyment.

I enjoyed every race I entered, in particular when all returned in good order.

I had more than my fair share of success compared to most but would have got no less actual enjoyment if not winning.

The actual racing and showing was as far as I was concerned a bonus, all the other activities involved would have been worth while with neither having been undertaken.

Regards.

Yes definitely each to their own   totally but we love winning which some can't understand and yes we get angry on a Saturday if birds don't preform but thats the standard we have set ourselves.. I think the anger is just because of the hard work we put in to be disappointed on race day , especially with a big team we should never be far away which normally we are up there, its when miles behind with gets us