Pigeon Health ...

ive found the pigeons in the new loft arnt as healthy looking as the birds i still have in my old loft..........the "best" pigeons in the new loft are given grit, minerals etc every day, vitamins in water once or twice a week, and avidress the rest of the week, whilst the pigeons im needing to re home in the old loft get plain water every day, with vitamins in whenever i can be bothered, grit, minerals a couple of times a week and no special attention, compared to those in the new loft.

yet the ones which are not looked after as well, look immaculate , and excellent health,

any thoughts ?

Could be nothing to do with feed David, pigeons do not like changes.

They like a happy contented environment.

Many problems arrise by fanciers chopping and changing the interior of their lofts and constantly trying the latest aids to success.

They will soon adapt to changes after they get used to them.

I would not advise filling them with the rubbish some will advise, just leave them to settle settle down.

Regards.

Or should read ONLY Healthy Pigeons Win Races:
In order for a loft to win consistently in tough competition four things are required:
Good birds - the best you can obtain. Swap or loan from mate. Often the best birds can be freebies off a good mate.
Fit birds - must be well conditioned. Means 'Loft fitness both Mental (Firstly)l and physical. then 'Race fit'
Motivated birds - they must want to come home fast.  Love of home. A warm place of safety. Flying to their territory. Perch, box etc. You can't motivate a bird if not interested. Not motivate a bird over night in my opinion
Healthy birds - the most important.

The reason that health is most important is that - you can spend a fortune on good pigeons - you can train their feathers off - you can fly natural, widowhood, double widowhood, lesbian hens, etc - but if they aren't healthy you are going to get beat. Poor health is the great equalizer in pigeon racing.
So if we assume that healthy pigeons win races, what do we mean by healthy pigeons? When I say healthy pigeons I mean more than birds that look good, act good, fly around the loft well, have white wattles, have clear eyes, and normal droppings. Why? Because a bird can fit the description that I just gave and not be healthy enough to win a big competition. That is because:
It is a bird's natural instinct to look healthy even when not. It is the sick bird that the predator gets in the wild and our pigeons maintain that instinct to act healthy even when not. We have all entered the loft to see a bird sitting on the floor all fluffed up that we thought was healthy the day before. Upon exam the bird is as light as a feather, It didn't happen overnight. That bird has been slowly losing weight but trying to look healthy.
Pigeons can be infected with all types of organisms such as coccidia, worms, trichomonas (canker), bacterial pathogens, etc. and look perfectly healthy in every way.
It is critical that we understand there are 3 levels of pigeon health:
Poor health - this is when birds are sick and act sick. It is easy to see and birds obviously will not perform in this group. Most fanciers don't keep or race their pigeons in this condition.
Apparent health - this is where we have birds that are apparently healthy in every way but are infected with various organisms that reduce performance. This is where the vast majority of pigeon fanciers keep their birds today.
Super health - this is the elusive goal that all of us who fly pigeons should strive for. It is the level that the top lofts who win year in and year out maintain in their birds. Very few fanciers ever reach this level and when they do they have super results every week.
The following graph illustrates what I have described above. As you can see - STRESS is what causes a reduction in health and thus a reduction in performance. What things stress our birds? - Training, breeding, racing, moulting, disease, parasites, husbandry problems, etc.
As we keep in mind the goal of keeping our birds in super health so they can give us super performance, we need to look at 4 specific areas. As we look at these areas, remember that we are seeking to reduce stress on our birds so that they can reach that super health.
Loft hygiene and design
Specific diseases
Using a veterinarian
A realistic health program

Yes, and must agree with Misty, they don't like change, and many will take time to adjust.

birds have been in "new loft" around 10 - 11 months now ........

If you have been breeding in the same loft then they should by now have adapted to their new environment.

Could be the environmant is not as ideal as the one they were in previously.

Takes time for some pigeons to adapt.

If you are feeding etc; as previously with no problems (and no introductions from outside) then it could be there is nothing wrong with the pigeons other than they do not look like you would like them to.

Alternatively if you are giving them this that and the other ???????.

Regards.

an elderly pigeon friend of mine, who sadly is no longer with us , lived round the corner to me, and whenever he went away with his wife for the week, i would feed his birds for him......all he / i ever gave them was corn and fresh water, and had the main doors open all day for the sun and fresh air, they were a picture of health, tight feathers and bouncing with health.

it makes you wonder eh .........

Maybe luck comes into it David, I was very lucky (after a false start using all the aids etc;) I used nothing but good feed ( eveything in but the kitchen sink) and garlic in the water and lime deep litter.

Could pick a pigeon up clean it's feet and win a show with high double figures in.

They also won for me and many others, some saying they were the best pigeons they had ever had. ( names available if required).

Too many fanciers make the sport a handicap for their pigeons rather than an aid.

Unless a pigeon did not score at either racing or showing or breed the goods in a reasonable time it went and not to another fancier.

Eventually you only had to breed a few and cull few.

I always kept as near to nature as possible.

There are as the old Rome oft Quoted regarding roads many dfferent means to an end mine was based on the love of home interfered with as little as possible by me.

Regards.

David wrote:

an elderly pigeon friend of mine, who sadly is no longer with us , lived round the corner to me,  and whenever he went away with his wife for the week, i would feed his birds for him......all he / i ever gave them was corn and fresh water, and had the main doors open all day for the sun and fresh air, they were a picture of health, tight feathers and bouncing with health.

it makes you wonder eh .........

That is me to a 'T'. Groats a basic feed, especially for youngsters in the nest.

always use groats all year round ....more when breeding ,david just a thought but is your new loft facing the same direction as the old one ie sw,se ...north etc...it could well make a difference if there not getting any natural sunlight or as much as they were used to

oldstrain wrote:

always use groats all year round ....more when breeding ,david just a thought but is your new loft facing the same direction as the old one ie sw,se ...north etc...it could well make a difference if there not getting any natural sunlight or as much as they were used to

no darren, facing nearly the opposite way to the old loft........the old loft had sun all day long, and with the main doors open they loved it sunbathing, the new loft is facing the opposite direction, but i had no choice, i`d nowhere else to put it, they do get a bit of sun coming into the loft early morning in summer, but thats about it .

David wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

always use groats all year round ....more when breeding ,david just a thought but is your new loft facing the same direction as the old one ie sw,se ...north etc...it could well make a difference if there not getting any natural sunlight or as much as they were used to

no darren, facing nearly the opposite way to the old loft........the old loft had sun all day long, and with the main doors open they loved it sunbathing, the new loft is facing the opposite direction, but i had no choice, i`d nowhere else to put it, they do get a bit of sun coming into the loft early morning in summer, but thats about it .

i reckon thats what it is david ...could you do a half sheeted roof with polycarbonate or maybe some clear tiles etc...to get some sunlight into the loft only other alternative would be to install lighting and use daylight bulbs

As quoted previously David, changing the environment can be either benificial or detrimental.

If I had to ( and did at times) have prisoners I  always had an aviary attached in which the pigeons could have all the benifits of the fresh air and the sun whenever they wanted, both an aid to good health.

Always open night and day, the aviary had no solid roof  but was wire netting, completely openn to the elements.  


So an aviary may be a good idea.


Regards.

yes misty an aivary would be the best option but i dont know if david has space but certainly if he has would be the best option

oldstrain wrote:

yes misty an aivary would be the best option but i dont know if david has space but certainly if he has would be the best option

Heaps of space there from my way of thinking here etc O/S for our David. Loft roof going to waste from my perspective & a bit of good planning, could just see it put to better use, maybe . Now know an old bloke has a cheap/spare ladder now made out of 4 x 2 & a few rusty nails      if David is somewhat interested in using it to get up onto his roof to start the new work there .
*****

no darren, facing nearly the opposite way to the old loft........the old loft had sun all day long, and with the main doors open they loved it sunbathing, the new loft is facing the opposite direction, but i had no choice, i`d nowhere else to put it, they do get a bit of sun coming into the loft early morning in summer, but thats about it . [/quote]

I'd think of an avairy then if possible the other side.

i would have room for an aviary on the front i suppose, only thing is the mess......if i had a wire roof the droppings would get wet when it rained, and with it being close to the house, i dont think it would go down too well ........

i was intending to buy two of the wire cages everyone seems to have now, the ones with the slide / foldout landing boards, they would allow the birds to come out for sun light more, its just finding someone who makes them locally really ...

not a bad idea that knackered, but maybe in the house loft space.........our next door neighbiur is in the middle of having a loft conversion done, i might have a word with the workmen and ask for a pigeon loft conversion in our roof space

I placed shelving 4 inches under the Wire. On runners like a draw. easily pulled out and a quick scrape. No mess on the floor.

david polycarbonate the roof of the aivary and sides and half the front but mesh it aswell then in spring/summer remove polycarbonate from the front and sides and just leave on the roof ,on the floor you could use grills with a pullout tray you could even raise the floor a few feet so you dont have to worry about mess every 5 minutes

Hi David, good chance your ventilation is totally different in the new loft with the apex tiled roof compared to the old one . If there's cold air coming in above the pigeons heads and drifting down in front of them as they sit in in perches or boxes then you won't get them in good condition. Been there, got the tshirt mate

For aviary/cages there's always large dog crates on second hand sites :

CRATE

I use large dog crates just tied together for one loft. Easy to put up and take down. Just sit on the board. Take off when the birds want to fly, better weather.

The best ventilationn in any loft is that of  outside the loft with no draughts.

The avery I used was ground based, like a chicken run only with a netting roof as well.

Droppings inside  taken care of with lime deep litter outside taken care of with nature.

Bath always available in aviary.

As near to nature as possible.

Regards.

halcanada81 wrote:

I use large dog crates just tied together for one loft. Easy to put up and take down. Just sit on the board. Take off when the birds want to fly, better weather.

yes hal they are always available second hand. Sad but true there will be a glut of these soon when the novelty of owning the christmas puppy wears off

Unfortunately true. Of course my crates have to be large for Mastiffs.

halcanada81 wrote:

I use large dog crates just tied together for one loft. Easy to put up and take down. Just sit on the board. Take off when the birds want to fly, better weather.

no rocket science there etc Hal that old kiss scenario at work again I suggest    . & take care.