Loft training for distance flight

we all know that loft flying/training is important. I have observed that after race where pigeons remain 5hours on wing, pigeon reduce flying on loft. they might fly 20-30 min at max on will, I think this may be fair too as they just have 6 days for next challenge. So if we will fly more on loft, they will loose fats and that is something we don't want.
when we raced upto 500KM , what could be best routine for next races that can keep pigeons in from ?
I believe that it may have variable answers as I think that depends on racing system one follow, i.e widowhood , flight from perch

I measure food always and serve them, for races upto 400KM. after 400KM I give more food to them and fly less on loft for weekly race and some short tosses for bi-weekly race. So food , should we fill hopper all the time or we need to be strict on it ? I give carb based feed in morning and fats oriented in evening.evening feed is just a incentive for them for longer distances

i always used plenty fats for longer races tanveer ,hemp is a good seed also linseed rape seed is good to but too much can be very toxic

More none  sense talked about food than anything else.

This is what a world respected fancier who was friends with many top fanciers in the world says about feed, I have said the same for over 50 years.

Fanciers who lose faith I would like to give the same, not too heavy mix, the whole year round, Klak did the same and numerous greats in the sport still do.

They give their racers, babies, racers and breeders the same mix all the year round and they perform.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

More none  sense talked about food than anything else.

This is what a world respected fancier who was friends with many top fanciers in the world says about feed, I have said the same for over 50 years.

Fanciers who lose faith I would like to give the same, not too heavy mix, the whole year round, Klak did the same and numerous greats in the sport still do.

They give their racers, babies, racers and breeders the same mix all the year round and they perform.

Regards.

Absolutely agree etc 99% of it is total bunkum to a good pigeon which has a love of its home. Spin doctors these days I'm have deliberately for their own reasons made life difficult in a pigeon type sense for many, if any     newcomers to our sport. Now, if    everyone       just used the old & tested typical KISS treatment scenario    like a Geordie friend of ours here     (in a pigeon sense)     this sport of ours now would be in a far better place I somehow suspect     End of the day     maybe something here, Putin       now could learn & maybe follow     with his general desire apparently to somehow bring peace to the world, Putin style    .      

I think food and supplements make sense now
50 years ago , no one could make 1000KM in a day. improvement in food and supplements with researched medication make it possible . Also speed these days is not comparable to past.

MISTY wrote:

More none  sense talked about food than anything else.

This is what a world respected fancier who was friends with many top fanciers in the world says about feed, I have said the same for over 50 years.

Fanciers who lose faith I would like to give the same, not too heavy mix, the whole year round, Klak did the same and numerous greats in the sport still do.

They give their racers, babies, racers and breeders the same mix all the year round and they perform.

Regards.

tanveerhbaig wrote:

I think food and supplements  make sense now    
50 years ago , no one could make 1000KM in a day. improvement in food and supplements with researched medication make it possible . Also speed these days is not comparable to past.

MISTY wrote:

More none  sense talked about food than anything else.

This is what a world respected fancier who was friends with many top fanciers in the world says about feed, I have said the same for over 50 years.

Fanciers who lose faith I would like to give the same, not too heavy mix, the whole year round, Klak did the same and numerous greats in the sport still do.

They give their racers, babies, racers and breeders the same mix all the year round and they perform.

Regards.

you may just be right in what you think/say etc Tanveer by todays general thinking standards. But I will tell you here now a true & factual true story, in a local sense. 50 odd years ago here, I saw with my own very eyes far more 500/600 mile pigeons in many lofts (including mine own) homing in good/fast time than today. Make of it what you will, but in the end I suggest be wary somewhat of spin & bling from those out to make a buck with pigeons, because I honestly believe here few of them I'm   in the end on average have this sport of ours at heart etc. Now     I will tell you another true story, of sorts     about another local type here, from back when & before he become an expert type on pigeon tonics & medications to make a fast buck     today       he battles to get them now to fly home from the paddock next door filled with local sheep     compared somehow, somehow to many years ago here where he had a proud record 2nd to none with what he achieved with his pigeons in flying in distance type races compared to his more recent modern times    .

tanveerhbaig wrote:

I think food and supplements  make sense now    
50 years ago , no one could make 1000KM in a day. improvement in food and supplements with researched medication make it possible . Also speed these days is not comparable to past.

MISTY wrote:

More none  sense talked about food than anything else.

This is what a world respected fancier who was friends with many top fanciers in the world says about feed, I have said the same for over 50 years.

Fanciers who lose faith I would like to give the same, not too heavy mix, the whole year round, Klak did the same and numerous greats in the sport still do.

They give their racers, babies, racers and breeders the same mix all the year round and they perf.

Regards.

This is today, the person concerned still races successfuly as do those he mentions, not club racing.

Pigeon were flying from Rome in my youth.

Tis a mythe that pigeons fly faster today.

The pigeons today are drug dependant and spent forces at the yearling stage in most cases and either sold or put to stock.

There is no comparison between fanciers today and those of my youth.

Fanciers breed far more and keep far more and race far more.

You were flying against 60 or 70 or more in club racing.

Just keep your pigeons without using any drugs, preventative and to enhance
performance for a couple of seasons and see how many are left.

I fed the same all the year round and won my share from every race point and those I gave away did the same initialy, until they were ruined.

Not fifty years ago but over the past 50 years in my present location until I retired from racing.

It takes years to develope a family that has a good constitution and immune system and a couple of minutes to ruin it by bad management.

If all fanciers are using all the over 300 aids to win etc; then of course some will win, but they would not have lived with the old healthy ones.

Proof of the pudding, the sport here is almost none existant compred with even 50 years ago.

Always said and practised keeping as near to nature as possible.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

tanveerhbaig wrote:

I think food and supplements  make sense now    
50 years ago , no one could make 1000KM in a day. improvement in food and supplements with researched medication make it possible . Also speed these days is not comparable to past.

MISTY wrote:

More none  sense talked about food than anything else.

This is what a world respected fancier who was friends with many top fanciers in the world says about feed, I have said the same for over 50 years.

Fanciers who lose faith I would like to give the same, not too heavy mix, the whole year round, Klak did the same and numerous greats in the sport still do.

They give their racers, babies, racers and breeders the same mix all the year round and they perf.

Regards.

This is today, the person concerned still races successfuly as do those he mentions, not club racing.

Pigeon were flying from Rome in my youth.

Tis a mythe that pigeons fly faster today.

The pigeons today are drug dependant and spent forces at the yearling stage  in most cases and either sold or  put to stock.

There is no comparison between fanciers today and those of my youth.

Fanciers breed far more and keep far more and race far more.

You were flying against  60 or 70 or more in club racing.

Just keep your pigeons without using any drugs, preventative and to enhance
performance for a  couple of seasons and see how many are left.

I fed the same all the year round and won my share from every race point and those I gave away did the same initialy, until they were ruined.

Not fifty years ago but over the past 50 years in my present location until I retired from racing.

It takes years to develope a family that has a good constitution and immune system and a couple of minutes to ruin it by bad management.

If all fanciers are using all the over 300 aids to win etc; then of course some will win, but they would not have lived with the old healthy ones.

Proof of the pudding, the sport here is almost none existant compred with even 50 years ago.

Always said and practised keeping as near to nature as possible.

Regards.        

Same same here Misty I'm Local club/centre I first joined back in the early sixties here 100 flyers/3500 odd birds a week, no longer exists now except in name alone after 60 odd years Hand full left & I truly mean a hand full, now have many extra miles to travel this year too the next local centre to hopefully race on race day. Now terrible, how the mind works & remembers certain things from back when, out of the blue & for no type particular reason.   the following is for our Tanveer believe half of what you hear or may read etc maybe & best just let your eyes perhaps just lead one down the knowledge trail for the general wisdom factor. Example" first year I ever flew a pigeon against the senior ranks as a young snotty nose smart arse type surfer teenager first ever 500 mile race I flew in, clocking early next morning for 4th club with 4 birds. Terrific performance I thought till I ask the bloke that won if I could just look at his winner club being on his property & how many by chance could I ask did you have home there by the time I first clocked for my 4th club. 34 birds he said but there could maybe be a few more somehow I suspect there now, as I've been busy milking my cows here for the last few hours I'm End of the story, I saw the actual winner on the day & there were many more than 33 others sitting beside it there in the loft with the same colour type rubbers on as every one else had clocked as such. End of the day     I learnt a lesson here, may have been a harsh one, for a smart arse know all type     but still remember & thankful even today in a pigeon sense that I did etc    . 

Funny thing the first time you think you have made it.

I was about 13 and had had pigeons since being able to walk.

The fanciers around were all miners and helped the youngsters, as did other fanciers in those days.

I was too young to be able to afford full membership in the club but they allowed juniors to join but later at 16 went into partnership with Philip York an ex RAF walla.

At 13 they said I could send to a race, could clock into a fanciers clock for experience and a Mr Hall said I could run to his clock.

I sent one pigeon later to be known as Buster.

Buster came back I ran to Mr Halls loft and he clocked him in.

And waited for twenty minutes before Mr Hall clocked his first pigeon.

Buster would have been in the hunt.

Made it I thought.

Yes but not for some time and many mistakes later.

Regards.

thank you Knackered and Misty for all the valuable thoughts.
May be I am behind on road you traveled , after few years I might be preaching what you are doing now

But it is good idea to make 2 teams next years, tonic vs non-(less)Tonic and compare results. I do agree that we have alot of toxin available in packing of supplements. when I read their ingredients and compare most of racing kit has same ingredients, so yeah it is marketing tactic. I do buy supplements but I have less bottles as compared to other team members. because I use bottles with distinct ingredients.

Recovery is trouble, if pigeon remain on wing for 6-7 hours, it takes 3-4 days to recover back,, while using recovery tonic, they recover in 1-2 day and ready to fly. Precise vitamins and their potency make them feel good and gain muscles quickly

Must point out tranveer, I always had the pigeons young and old on open hole.

Other than in mid summer when they would be out eary am and disturb the neighbours, fastened in at night and let out when got up in the morning at that time.

Otherwise loft left open hole all year round irrespective of the weather.

Very, very rarely did they see a trainig basket.

Would say they flew at least 300 miles a day up and down from loft to garden and then taking off for a couple or hours etc;

The only time they were still was when sitting.

Not sat like dummies in a loft for 90% of their life.

So to be fair it is impossible to compair some aspects.

However, what is undeniable the present pigeons are unhealthy and if not constantly treated would not survive.

Regards.

oldstrain wrote:

i always used plenty fats for longer races tanveer ,hemp is a good seed also linseed rape seed is good to but too much can be very toxic

For me the main for would have to be maize and peanuts, but i read in a lot off articles that fanciers in Europe give there birds grated cheese

numerous mixtures available, too many possibly, although I'm not planning on racing over 350 miles, if I was I'd have them on the hopper until an hour or two before dark. Something with 2 or 3 types of maize, various peas, safflower and sunflower seeds.

sunflower seeds are brilliant imo i would also use human grade peanuts but rather the sunflower seeds i think they are a safer bet because of mould/toxins

Redskin peanuts Darren, from Morrisons, pigeons love them and great for getting them tame and under control once they get a taste for them they'll peck them out between your teeth or fly up at your pocket once they catch on. Problem is I end up eating more than the pigeons get, almost addictive

From using farm beans as a main feed in the 60s changed to the same mix all year round as can be confirmed by the friend who supplied me for the past 50 years or so.
.

One sack of trapping mix added to which was a bag of pea nuts, a small bag of hemp and a smal bag of linseed. Always kept a few pea nuts as a treat.These were mixed together.

Along with a sack of young bird mix including maize.

The pigeons got equal amounts of each every day of the year, amount varied according to numbers.


Also garlic in the water every day.

Could pick a pigeon out clean it's feet and win a show.

Think they would have done just as well on mainly beans as previously but thought they would enjoy the variety more.

As for racing, never trained often jumped them 200 miles etc;

Pigeons do not need showing their way home they want a great love of home and given the natural health to do so.

Which is not acheived from bottles etc;

There is always the possibility that my pigeons being on open hole picked things up in the garden that offset any wrong I was doing.

Regards.

tanveerhbaig wrote:

thank you Knackered and Misty for all the valuable thoughts.
May be I am behind on road you traveled , after few years I might be preaching what you are doing now

But it is good idea to make 2 teams next years, tonic vs non-(less)Tonic  and compare results. I do agree that we have alot of toxin available in packing of supplements. when I read their ingredients and compare most of racing kit has same ingredients, so yeah it is marketing tactic. I do buy supplements but I have less bottles as compared to other team members. because I  use bottles with distinct ingredients.

Recovery is trouble, if pigeon remain on wing for 6-7 hours, it takes 3-4 days to recover back,, while using recovery tonic, they recover in 1-2 day and ready to fly. Precise vitamins and their potency make them feel good and gain muscles quickly

'That's OK Tanveer I'm just pleased your listening type of thing to a degree, most folk don't etc I've found. Know you can & will maybe do as you say above. But I wouldn't bother here if being quite honest, as it's the old cat chasing it's tail scenario to a certain degree from my perspective I'm Magic mixes are a fantasy in fact a total fantasy if one looks at the record books of successful flyers & how different they feed to achieve the same type goal for the most part in the end. Everything done with pigeons should have the WHY factor before it I suggest & if people did, many would find how much time they waste on issues irrelevant to good pigeons with a love of home or a perch come race day I suspect. Now I give you the credit there & wisdom that by now you have found successful local mixes looking at your results over the last few years here. Just pick one that takes your fancy & let that be the end of perhaps looking into the future with the magic mix circus we see. Reason being here my love of the old KISS scenario issue     & as time passes your family of birds there become accustomed over the years to the same general daily regime year in year out type of thing in your breeding cycle before you even start racing. Strange way of looking at a successful system on the feeding side at times for what I've seen in many lofts, is it's basically a rather boring/manner/way  system because of the repetition factor used there which over time somehow works to the benefit of good pigeons etc. Now just to confuse you more here now Tanveer & throw a cat amongst the pigeons again, I ask a simple question. WHY oh WHY do you as you do there apparently feed twice a day as such when I could quite easily mount a case that it's not the healthest of way's perhaps to keep or even race a pigeon out to the extreme distant events End of the story     next time your talking to Asim there come race night Tanveer     just tell him I'm watching him like a hawk with great interest     but with no evil intent down here    & best also you hide all sandpaper there now maybe     as a bunch of our local kangaroo types down here are or about to hit town there apparently I see with a Putin type attitude of winning at all cost no matter what with the bat & ball issue scenario  . cheers:
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