lefebre dhaenens

thats why he sticks to it

Malcolm help is needed to shine some light on this situation

The vent bones must be high, the gap between the breast bone and vent bone must not be more than a finger width , in cocks.
The closer the end of the keel, and the ventbones, the better.
Care must be taken that that the keel and vent bone do not make a hook to each other, they must be more or less in a straight line.
Hens is a different story, as there has to be a good gap, for laying the eggs.
If you guys still need malcolm, good then, i have said my bit about the theory

Don't take it to heart niel, the only reason i asked for malcolm was the way he explains things in depth
Not to say that you now nothing niel but just want a different veiw??

Don Webb wrote:

Malcolm help is needed to shine some light on this situation

I believe that vent bones do not have any significance in whether a pigeon is a good racer or not. However, I would agree that were you to have a bird with vent bones to your liking(tight) and he is a winner plus, then it is almost certain that he will pass on this trait to his offspring, it could be that his offspring could be winners too. If this is so, then it would be easy to believe that it is high vent bones that are the secret whereas, you have just found yourself a breeder that breeds winners with High vent bones.
We are always looking for that elusive component that will make us winners, we will never find it because we cannot control genes, the best we can do is to attempt to manipulate those genes and at the moment scientists are trying to do this, but with all their education it is still an uphill problem.
When I was a young man we did not have such things as pigeon medicines, the most we had in our medical cabinets were: Epsom salt, Bi-carb, tea leaves, potasium permanganate and the like. Birds were much harder in those days because they had an immune system that was strong enough to fight off anything untoward. We raced them 600 miles and they came on the day, we raced the full programme in spite of the moult and we did not suffer any bird that showed any sign of weakness.
Today we have birds that are dosed weekly and the minute they are not dosed they pick up something that needs anti-bi's to cure it, and off we go again.
I am trying to get to the bottom of respo. infections at the moment. Now we all know that Respo. means chest infections........................any doctor will tell you that chest infections are almost always VIRAL and no amount of anti-Bi's will clear viral infections, but the question is: some anti-Bi's seem to cure respo.
T hat is fact, but are they curing the secondry infections that are sometimes worse than the original infection, leaving the birds natural immunity to get rid of the initial infection. In essence this means that if the bird had its natural immunity system intact then there would not be a secondary infection as the iinitial would have been cured by natural immunity.
WE are the masters of our own fate, we dose when we have little knowlege about what we are doing, but we do it because Jim Smith said we should, would you give your child a course of anti-Bi's without any knowledge of what you are doing? You often read postings of fanciers who request info regarding how much to give? the replies state several amounts, none of which can really be relied upon, if this is true, and you would not dose your child with this drug or quantity, then why do you think it is okay to do it to your pigeons? Could it be that we have all become homemade quacks, who have very little knowledge of what we are really doing.
I have always questioned why I do things (Pigeon-wise) because pigeon racing is a factual science and it has logic that can be applied to it. I have never and will never subscribe to theories, theories are made up by men whos' only objective is to make money out of the innocent unwary. Look at the books these people churn out and compare the cost to ordinary novels etc. Theories are for the unthinkers who will accept anything said by the writer, it is time to spend more time in the loft observing what is goin on instead of following blindly the crap that is forced on us by Charletons of the pigeon world. I have done my best over the years to bring pigeon racing up to date..................i am afraid I failed in some areas because there were those who had a louder voice and those who were too deaf and blind to see that they were being manipulted into thinking that thet were being guided by 'Aces' and 'Experts'
Thre are very few rules to pigeon Racing, Treat then Hard, treat them with respect, use common sense all the time, listen to one man at a time and do not allow yourself to be enticed to do something because Joe Smith does it, in time you will learn that there is everything to gain by spending time in your loft than someone elses.
Just my opinions and observations.
Chanco.

Hi Chanco iwhole hearterly agree with you on the miss use of medicines, alot of pigeons are propped up by them, like you say in years gone by nothing was used pigeons had a more healthy immune system, losses were few, young bird sickness never heard of, i believe now we are paying the price for 20 odd years of abuse on are birds, not only do i believe we have damaged the immune system but also the homing ability, each year bird losses get higher each year, fanciers now breed 100 y/bs just to end up with 20, i also think if we stop treating now to get back to good immunity in the birds would take a number of years, but i annot see many fanciers doing this as they want success now
Ken

the trouble with not treating is that the top fliers are treating all the time if you dont want to win races then dont treat them

Hi ian i dident say i dont want to win races, but is blind treating really the answer, the only real winners are pharmisist who produce all these treatments
Ken

yes i agree no use treating blind , but youve got to treat to get your birds in peak condition

Have you why ?? why , carnt you get natural peakness with out treating
Ken

Pigeons must be perfectly healthy to get best results, treating them is the most obvious way to get them healthy.
It is also a fact that a pigeon with a good immunity system , with minimum treatment could also give exellent results.

Thats a bit contradictive Grizzle cock you need to treat toget good results but healthy birds with a good immune system without treatment can also achieve the same so which would you go for im confused
Ken

Okay , vaccine is a must , parramyxo and salmonella
I'll be honnest, i dont like to treat.
But some things like worms and canker , must be treated , it is vital.

Yes ill will go for vacination thats by law, treating for coxi canker,worms as needed yes, but what about all the other potions on the market, you read the adds, you see the hype to compete with the best you need to give them this that or the other, is this not the stuff that is doing the damage
Ken

ive heard fanciers say about their best performers that the bird has never had a days illness in its life.....this could be that quality birds have good imune and this makes a good bird.....

DAVID wrote:

ive heard fanciers say about their best performers that the bird has never had a days illness in its life.....this could be that quality birds have good imune and this makes a good bird.....

In general this is very true, many of the worlds top athletes have never really been suffering from a debilitating illness in their lives and the regime that they follow insures that they remain in peak condition for many months at a time. We have forgotten how to work hand in hand with nature, thinking we can manipulate everything. ........................sad!
Chanco

as our members know i have been ut of pigeon racing for 20 years and returned 18 months ago, now there are so many different products sold for pigeons for treating this and that which wernt around when i kept pigeons before......seems like everyones gone mad just treating as routine not for cure in the search for success, altho i know the usuall preventions before breeding is acceptable to ensure healthy ybs, i dont think there is a magic potion in a bottle to produce winners.....

your right there david my uncle never treated the birds for alot just kept them helthy canker now and again and he had plenty great wins over the 50 years he kept them

Yes i have heard that myself