Pigeons That Handle Well

When looking at birds being advertised I've read on many occasions of pigeons that handle really well and I'm afraid I'm not at all sure what that means so could someone kindly help please? I assume it's not just the quality of the feathers, how silky they are etc but also the physical shape of the bird; depth of the keel and so on. I've also read descriptions of 'hollow backs', what does this mean? Could this whole area be a purely subjective thing with no real explanation beyond being the type of body shaped bird you personally prefer, in which case would any recommendation on how well a bird handles be just a representation of that persons own preference and often be a disappointment by being one that's not regarded as anything special in anyone elses opinion??

:DI think you have asked an impossible question here...firstly when I visit lofts, good lofts I handle winners, I personally wouldnt have them in my loft, so am I wrong? then that fancier comes and handles my birds, he secretly thinks I wouldnt want any of them is he wrong? you have to live with your birds every day, all winter long you clean out and look at the birds, If they make you happy then all is good and they handle well, if your not happy with them you need to find some you do like.
I read that bert braspenning handled a champion in holland and admitted he had killed birds in his own loft that looked and handled better, he then questioned his whole selection method, thinking how many champions had he killed which hadnt come up to his standards ans likings. He is a champion fancier so you would think he knows what to look for and what its all about having owned many champions. however its true many fanciers have things in common when looking for a good bird, I personally would never breed from a bird whos tail raises up when in the hand, the tail should remain horizontal or point a little down showing a strong back, not cos I think such a bird is rubbish as I think many good birds have a poor back, but it shows me when its being chaised by the falcon its week back will make it easy to catch, as it will be unable to change direction fast enough to escape, thats why most week backed youngsters get lost and killed and are almost worthless. in my opinion, but I bet there are some good birds who have luck on there side and havent had to escape yet.

some of the best dont handle that well but who is to say what they should feel like everyone has there own opinion of how they should handle

Thanks Ian and Rudderfett - to be honest as I was typing the question I had a suspicion that it would be a very subjective thing, but I get a sense of broad agreement about the tail raising though - but would that be when they're just sitting in your hand or when a thumb is drawn down the back.

Personally I like the look of birds with well developed wattles and that are physically quite big, especially blue bars - they remind me of the Dordin cocks a very successful fancier I knew keapt 30 yers ago - they always looked very proud, impressive birds. But on the other hand I often see birds that are the complete opposite in appearance and are big winners, especially over distance and on hard days so I guess what's inside their head and how much 'heart' they've got is more important in the end when it comes to racing

the one thing i like to do on a regular is go down the NFC marking station
and help put through the birds then you get a idea what to look for in a good racer
over the last few years i have put pigeons through the ringer what have scored in the top ten in the NFC
and to look and feel of them pigeons they look and handle no better then mine but what it comes down to in the end is quality and breeding . last season i put through a fancier pigeons in the national he is a house old name is pigeon did not make any impresion on me what so ever but come race day from france he had a fantastic race doing well in the open result , that,s the beauty of this sport you think you know what your looking for then it turns out to be the opposite all good fun .

im not sure how a pigeon handles has much to do with performance, i know some top men say balance of the bird is needed and wing types etc.......but this is just their own preferances and it doesnt mean its right, i have seen and handled some real ugly pigeons which have topped the fed and won many good positions but then handled lovely looking birds which were only fit for the pot, its a bonus if you get a winner that is nice looking but as for presuming most good looking birds are winners is a no - no.

as for strong backs, do we mean a strong rump or actual back ? the best pigeon i have ever handeled was over 20 years ago and i can still remember it now, and i have never held a pigeon anywhere as good since, it didnt have an over strong back/rump but also didnt have a weak one but just sat in my hand and felt like cork and felt bouyant with silk like feathers and a eye which would have any eyesign man jumping up and down.....

so i think how each fancier defines a good bird by handling is purely up the the individual, unless someone is going to show us all a tried and tested method.....?????

The main thing for me is what type of pigeon i like, then see if pigeons of that shape and type are good if not try and visit as many top lofts and handle all the champions which you can and make your own opinion of what is common within the champions and then use that knowledge within your own loft

Your right there David it does have to be your perference and everyone has different ideas

Will say do like to see the tail when in the hand going straight out and not pointing down or up

once remember reading an article about some top fancier, he said he visited another fancier and handled all his top winners.....he said whilst holding them he noticed something they all had in common, and also that his own winners had the same thing.........according to him it was some physical simalarity which they all had, but he never did give the "secret " away, if it ever exsisted that is..............

Will say the old Janssen van den Bosch i readed were like wedges in the hand nothing at the back and all mucsel at the front

But something which David said they were lite in the hand just liks a cork but strong

altho i do like to handle a bird which tail goes downwards ive also had birds which when handled are very tight and tense which i dont like, i would prefer a bird which just sits lightly in the hand and is bouyant..............altho some would say a calm bird could be tamer because of the time the fancier has put into them rather than a bird which is wild.

ive had some ybs bred over the last year or so from my stock birds, these are very short cast with broad shoulders and nothing at the rump area, they are different colours than normal and also have a very dark eye, which neither parents have........when i first bred from these stock birds all the ybs were "normal" now they seem different, is this some genetic fault coming out ? this year i am altering the pairings to try not to breed any more of these /

Thanks for the advice, I particularly like the idea of helping out when marking the birds, visiting some successful lofts is also good - interesting too, but on the whole it does seem to be a personal thing.

The youngsters you gave me David are really nice to handle, they're quite tame too and loving peanuts but are looking like scruffy punks - I'm really looking forward to seeing them in a couple of weeks whe their heads have got a full feather covering They're aerial acrobats too - great to watch on these clear sunny days.

Could you give me more of an idea of how I tell about the tail lifting that Rudderfett spoke about as again I've read/hard about it but am unsure what to look for - is it something the bird does of its own accord when handled or in some sort of response??

For me if the pigeon sits in your hands and as hold the pigeon infront of you then look at the head and the body should be at 90 degree angle

just like an "L" but a backwards "L" hope this helps

It certainly does Don - thanks.

Steve hope you understand that with the "L", the short part is the head part and the long part is the whole body including the tail and it all runs straight mate

what a load come on don the basket sorts them out

Yes you am right, but Steve was asking about the tail in his other posts

Ian start reading the post and get your comments right before you send a comment

And yes the basket is the number one thing, but steve was asking about handling not the basket

Ian let Steve walk not run

steve, you get birds with different degrees of strong or weak backs......some are very strong whilst some just stick straight up in the air, these i think are not desirable altho as ian and don suggest, the only way to find a good racer is to race it......but even then the basket is only as good as the fanciers management, if this is below par even the best pigeons wont win.........

Thanks for the replies gents. Don, definately get the L thing, I checked all mine today and thankfully they're all non-L like, a good one for me to watch out for in the future. And I agree that the basket is the acid test albeit of the pigeons ability as well as the loftmanship of the sender and that's regardless of how the bird looks or handles - always good o have a performer that looks the part (as I told my wife - and she agreed

most of my best pigeons have stong backs when handled the tail goes down
making srong arched back , but there are pigeons that win with tails stick up in the air
mostly tail winds i have found.

all the best
jim

hi jim, would you say the birds which have tails which stick up in the air and win in tail winds do it as a one off, and then are maybe lost the week after ?.......or are they multiple winners who also breed winners themselves?

no it dosent mean it wont breed any good pigeons with the correct mating to correct thetail as best you can
as to racing they havent come to the front on head winds or steady flying days.
this is only my own experence as pigeons are a mystery .

jim

[quote="Don Webb"]Ian start reading the post and get your comments right before you send a comment

And yes the basket is the number one thing, but steve was asking about handling not the basket

Ian let Steve walk not run [/quote
wind your neck in knew you would bite