Just my opinion.

Do you not think, a lot of the weather we have had of late, is what we used to class as typical British weather, but over the last 7 or 8 years we have been spoilt by good weather conditions.
This has given rise to us taking advantage of faster more delicate breeds of pigeons.
That quite frankly cannot handle these harsh conditions and our taerrain, valleys, hills etc.
The older breeds of late, busschaerts, Boeykin, Grooters, Barkers Gits just to name a few used to excell in these conditions, would you not think that this could well be the way forward for the future in Britain.

i for one realy hope so the sion and bricoux are good all weather birds aswell and think you may have a point their gaz although their are only small pockets of the oldstrains left that you can say are true to the old type strains ....when i get a bit of time i will post some pics of grooters maybe even a cross with a proven older strain may do the trick and i have exsperimented this year with meuleman vdb (marien) x grooter which have bred a lovely type ,so will let you know how it pans out and anyway half the fun is trying diff things and holding exspectation of that wonder bird jmo

great topic gaz

Nice one Daz, look forward to seeing and seeing the results mate.
Sounds like you have put a lot of thought into them.

not sure Gaz as a boy i remember long hot still summers but snow in the winter

that was in the seventies mate, Im talking eighties ninetiess early 2000

sod that bring back the seventies

busschaerts, Boeykin, Grooters, Barkers Gits just to name a few used to excell in these conditions,


Are their any Gits still about

only ones I have managed to find are crossed with Barkers.

Gaz b wrote:

Do you not think, a lot of the weather we have had of late, is what we used to class as typical British weather, but over the last 7 or 8 years we have been spoilt by good weather conditions.
This has given rise to us taking advantage of faster more delicate breeds of pigeons.
That quite frankly cannot handle these harsh conditions and our taerrain, valleys, hills etc.
The older breeds of late, busschaerts, Boeykin, Grooters, Barkers Gits just to name a few used to excell in these conditions, would you not think that this could well be the way forward for the future in Britain.

Agree with you on this one Gaz

it's just a theory I am working on maybe for next year.

But you have something to think about Boss

i know what ya trying to say mate but most of these new fancy breeds are just old breed with new names,
as each pigeon always date back to generations,
what i feel is that a lot of feeding methods / feeds are smaller seeds and unlike years gone by people used peas beans and tares or large mix, now they are not so many big corn in mix
as my dad says they got no cracker inside them!!

a good part of it is down to bringing in unflown birds as stock birds all stock birds should have flown even if it is just the yb programme if someone comes on and says they have bred good birds from unflown stock you have been very lucky i also think unless you have a family of birds that have been tested over the years to hold back a yb and say you want it for stock is plain silly JMO

what i also should have said i think it's best to buy from a racing loft

rainbow wrote:

a good part of it is down to bringing in unflown birds as stock birds all stock birds should have flown even if it is just the yb programme if someone comes on and says they have bred good birds from unflown stock you have been very lucky i also think unless you have a family of birds that have been tested over the years to hold back a yb and say you want it for stock is plain silly JMO

yes thats a good point m8 i kept 2 ybs that were winners last season for stock and ok they have not flown as yearlings but at least they show potential and with only 2 years behind me i have to start somewhere with my stock and feel that good racers from your own loft is the way forward for breeding ybs to race far better than say buying in 2 from louella that have not raced the terrain or shown any potential racing and have had a lifetime of antibiotics lol jmo

rainbow wrote:

a good part of it is down to bringing in unflown birds as stock birds all stock birds should have flown even if it is just the yb programme if someone comes on and says they have bred good birds from unflown stock you have been very lucky i also think unless you have a family of birds that have been tested over the years to hold back a yb and say you want it for stock is plain silly JMO

george i have 5 southwells here they are out of jimmy shepherds proven champs and i wont be racing them they are going to stock very often the champs dont breed good racers but the children do
i also have 4 pair of van loons bred from proven winners from 60mls to 650mls
and i,ll be seeing what they breed before they ever see a basket its my way tried and tested years ago some times it works sometimes it dont but if they are very close to the champs it very often does work all the best sean

sean did the same bird win at 60mls and 650mls

Where I am coming from Fletch, is the type of bird mate, the birds of old of were a longer cast bird of a thicker set, which would be fair to say they were bred more for endurance rather than speed, but was not slow by any means and were able to to tolerate harsh conditions.
Its a bit like putting the the old Mercedes 190E into a race with a Ferrari.
We know the Ferrari will always be the quicker faster car, but will burn more fuel and will struggle on certain days. The Merc on the other hand will always get there at the same pace and will do it time after time in all conditions without maintenance.
So lets compare the older breeds to the merc, no matter how harsh and testing the conditions they will always in most cases get home. They will recover quickly from a harsh race and will do it time after time. with very little recovery time or maintenance.
Lets look at the feathering of today's pigeons, silky smooth fine feathers, the feathering in the old pigeons was much coarser and withstood rain and wind much more. You would notice this much more if you let both types of pigeons out in the rain, the pigeons of today would resemble a drowned rat after 20 mins flying in the rain, the older type bird would look wet.
Buying pigeons from studs and lofts is a whole different subject.
I am talking of types of pigeons.

rite im off to take some pics of oldies lol and will put them up if someone can help as i am not very versatile with the pc other than typeing lol

email em to me daz i'll put em up for ya. I'll pm you

rainbow wrote:

sean did the same bird win at 60mls and 650mls

yes the van loons did

which one

rainbow wrote:

which one

which one what george

Gaz b wrote:

Where I am coming from Fletch, is the type of bird mate, the birds of old of were a longer cast bird of a thicker set, which would be fair to say they were bred more for endurance rather than speed, but was not slow by any means and were able to to tolerate harsh conditions.
Its a bit like putting the the old Mercedes 190E into a race with a Ferrari.
We know the Ferrari will always be the quicker faster car, but will burn more fuel and will struggle on certain days. The Merc on the other hand will always get there at the same pace and will do it time after time in all conditions without maintenance.
So lets compare the older breeds to the merc, no matter how harsh and testing the conditions they will always in most cases get home. They will recover quickly from a harsh race and will do it time after time. with very little recovery time or maintenance.
Lets look at the feathering of today's pigeons, silky smooth fine feathers, the feathering in the old pigeons was much coarser and withstood rain and wind much more. You would notice this much more if you let both types of pigeons out in the rain, the pigeons of today would resemble a drowned rat after 20 mins flying in the rain, the older type bird would look wet.
Buying pigeons from studs and lofts is a whole different subject.
I am talking of types of pigeons.

i get ya point you making mate
but my thinking is that the way races are raced the modern birds are breed for the races
i will be intrested in your results see how these older breeds go,
but i would be worried the lines they come from may be to diluted to fully test the theory

my dad always say his champion cock bergerac (was a alf barker workmen) was the best hardest breed of pigeon he ever known
he won saintes doing 13 half hours then 2 weeks later went to do it again
the more work you gave him the better he got

That's the one mate, in a nutshell.
Hard working pigeons and you had to work hard to get them working.
But master the art and they will repay the favour time and time again.
I may also be way off track, but it's just a theory at this stage.