It's enough to make you sick

I went into our stock loft this morning to clean out - feed etc and found two babies from the same nest dead!

They were both in their nest box, one behind the nest bowl and the other in the middle of their nest box. One had had the skin taken off its back and part of the head, but the other one didn't show signs of too much damage - BUT they were both dead and cold.

WHY ????? Does anyone have any experience of the same thing?

At first, I thought some other cock may have tried to take over the nest box and then killed the babies - much like a male lion would do - then I thought if the parents or parent was under a lot of stress, they might have done it.

I was doing some emergency work on the stock loft yesterday and maybe that upset the birds but the others seem to be OK.

They were just ready for ringing today as well - I am pig sick about it. I really can't afford to lose any young birds.

Anyone got any ideas please.

Phil

ffs how disheartening to see I am so sorry to hear this phil ....could it be the sire has done this driving the hen to nest again ,I have heard of this behaviour before so watch the sire m8 was their any blood on the ybs if so check the beak and wattle of the sire ...something has obviously forced them out of the nest ,is their a pair going down again maybe and looking for a 2nd nest ,sorry to hear phil atb

Did the ybs seem pecked or part eaten? Are you sure nothing of small vermin variety can get in,for example mice will nibble at baby birds in the nest in the wild. However they couldnt drag a week old pigeon out the bowl.
it's unusual for pigeons to turn on their own yb so young but it can happen but I think most likely another cock been in the box up to no good.
how easy would it be to set up a security camera linked to your phone or pc/tv ? Don't know cost in France but available uk under £50. Might give you answer if it happens again, but I really hope its a one off, it is upsetting when stuff like this happens.

oldstrain wrote:

ffs how disheartening to see I am so sorry to hear this phil ....could it be the sire has done this driving the hen to nest again ,I have heard of this behaviour before so watch the sire m8 was their any blood on the ybs if so check the beak and wattle of the sire ...something has obviously forced them out of the nest ,is their a pair going down again maybe and looking for a 2nd nest ,sorry to hear phil atb

Darren and Barnie - I have just been into our stock loft and had a good look at every bird in there. Even though one of the babies had the skin taken off part of its back and some of its head NO bird has got blood on its wattle or beak.

Also there is no chance that any rodent or other nasty could have got into the dead birds' nest box. The birds that are dead are on the very top box of 4 and the cock of that box is quite a toughie and I am sure he would have put up a real fight, if anyone had tried to take over his box.

There were small amounts of blood spatter around the nest bowl, but not much. I have seen much worse when cocks have been fighting over a box.

NO chance to get a CCTV or camera in the loft - the cost and different type of signal to French TVs and we have a UK TV.

Unless anyone has any other ideas, it might have to stay a mystery.

I am trying to stay positive, but all our stock birds are the best we can get right now and I would have rather not had this problem.

We press on!

Phil

i reckon its the sire wants to drive the hen again ....is it a yearling by any chance ,if so that would be another tick in that box for me jmo I may be totally wrong

Had a hen once that plucked the feathers out of its Young when it was feeding this happened on two occasions in the same season never done it before and certainly never done it again

oldstrain wrote:

i reckon its the sire wants to drive the hen again ....is it a yearling by any chance ,if so that would be another tick in that box for me jmo I may be totally wrong

The cock and the hen are the same pair as we had last year - so no Darren - neither parent are yearlings.

Phil

Has happened to me. Few years ago. Cock wanted the young out so he could breed again. Very good bird, very aggressive. Another nest bowl might work for yours??

halcanada wrote:

Has happened to me. Few years ago. Cock wanted the young out so he could breed again. Very good bird, very aggressive. Another nest bowl might work for yours??

Hi Hal

I am confused - why would a bird kill its own babies at 5/6 days old, just so its hen could lay again??

I didn't see him driving his hen (or any other hen) the last couple of days.

As I said in my other postings - we have had this pair of birds since we started up again last March 2016. In fact we got both birds through another of our members.

Some of our stock pairs are very good breeders - to the extent that they will lay again when their babies are around 10 days old. But they have always laid in the same nest bowl - or I have seen the cock driving his hen and put another nest bowl down before she has laid again.

We never had any problems with this pair last year at all. What do you suggest? Should we for example foster the eggs if we can? Or just risk it for the next round? I did notice that all today the cock was hunkered down in the nest 'ooh-ing' all the time. Would that indicate anything to you?

Phil

markevans wrote:

Had a hen once that plucked the feathers out of its Young when it was feeding this happened on two occasions in the same season never done it before and certainly never done it again

Hi Mark

As you may have realised from my reply to Hal, the pair of birds in question are two of the three we got through you.

They were as good as gold last year. I just don't know what's gone wrong.

Phil

Sorry to hear that Phil but I would do as you say and put the next pair of eggs under some feeders and let them go down again and see what happens or put both pair under feeders and the eggfrom the feeders under them

That's gutting Phil.
Another slim possibility, is maybe when you turned your lights off, a cock from the box underneath could have flown up to the wrong nest box in the dark, there could have been 2 cocks and a hen all fighting for ages thinking they're all in the right nest box. The adults may not have shown much damage but the young may have got trampled and the skin ripped off their back.
I can't think of another reason, it may not of been anything like that, but it's possible.
A real mystery.
Hope you have better luck the next round mate.

Boosey wrote:

That's gutting Phil.
Another slim possibility, is maybe when you turned your lights off, a cock from the box underneath could have flown up to the wrong nest box in the dark, there could have been 2 cocks and a hen all fighting for ages thinking they're all in the right nest box. The adults may not have shown much damage but the young may have got trampled and the skin ripped off their back.
I can't think of another reason, it may not of been anything like that, but it's possible.
A real mystery.
Hope you have better luck the next round mate.

Agressive cocks or even hens, can at times cause havoc in the breeding loft etc from my point of view. May never quite know the true answer Phil     but Boosey's suggestion above warrents some merit I feel. Cheers.

Not sure what to say. switching eggs seems most sensible. Wish you well.