Just the basics.

From what I can gather and pin down there are only one thing a pigeon needs. The will to get home as fast as possible. Exersise, feed, methods, meds etc, can all enhance their will to some degree but so much thought is put in to feed, training, methods the basic is often overlooked. JMO anyway.

Aye but thats the most important factor.

As I said in the BHW 40 years ago, the love of their home is the best motivation, (long lasting) that one can achieve within our sport, it is then up to the fancier to provide the fuel for any task asked.

Too much commercialism and a few lies along the road has not helped either the sport as a whole or the pigeons welfare in particular.

The very worst aspect have been the self appointed experts who have turned a simple sport into apparently one needing a degree in several specialist subjects.

Keep things as simple as possible, not as complicated as.


Regards.


.

Just had a look regarding floor dressings and the fanciers who condemn builders lime etc; and prefer to spend money on commercial products


All the white floor dressings are manufactured from chalk or other limestone minerals with a few sweet smelling additions to fool the foolish, when a bag of lime can last a year or more and cost pennies in comparison.


Just one of the many ways fanciers are taken for a ride.


Regards.

I used to use lime in the 80`s, good stuff it was, did the job........but it was horrible stuff to use, getting on the back of your throat and nose, thank goodness for columbine whitener, that's all I can say.

David it was supposed to go onto the perches and the floor not down your throat, and I never had any problem with it for over 75 years, both as dressing and a lime wash, I still use it as lime wash in the old loft, now occupied by show rabbits.

When I was young nearly every fancier used it and their birds did not need all the curative and preventative measures needed by fanciers today.

One would have thought that things would have got better instead of reaching the present situation.

The product you use will be made from a type of limestone and be less effective than the raw material, but smell better.

Regards.

Lime powder was always sprinkled on deep litter chicken barns 1955. Also barns washed with lime and water. I use when needed diatamaceuos earth or Stable Boy. Guess kitty litter would do the same thing.

MISTY wrote:

Just had a look regarding floor dressings and the fanciers who condemn builders lime etc; and prefer to spend money on commercial products


All the white floor dressings are manufactured from chalk or other limestone minerals with a few sweet smelling additions to fool the foolish, when a bag of lime can last a year or more and cost pennies in comparison.


Just one of the many ways fanciers are taken for a ride.


Regards.

Spin & bling Misty Put a pigeon on a bag of builders lime etc double the price & hey presto another magic type must have as such .

if i remember rightly misty, I did put it on the perches and floor, I didn't sit playing with it , throwing it about the loft.....simply by using it, it burnt the back of my throat and nose, I suppose you could compare it to cement, probably why there are so many building worker related illnesses, due to materials used, asbestos etc.

columbine floor whitener is one advancement I agree with.

Hazards of builders lime, wouldn't be for me........and can't imagine it doing the pigeons much good either.

"Not only is hydrated lime a very short-term solution (that only works to cover up the smell of ammonia) but it can also be a very dangerous product to use. If high concentrations of hydrated lime dust are inhaled, irritation to the respiratory tract will occur. Dermatitis can result from prolonged exposure and repeated skin contact and a risk of severe and permanent eye damage exists if hydrated lime comes in contact with the eyes. The product can cause burns in the presence of moisture and will cause irritation of the gastrointestinal tract when ingested. Personal protective equipment should be worn at all times when using hydrated lime".

good information there colin, there were some very nasty materials in the building trade, before the pc brigade stuck their noses in, this is one possibility my doctor put to me because both my lungs are scarred , quite possible it could have been through the use of builders lime for the pigeons for 10 years.......

Hi David, we got stopped from using hydrated lime here at work over 10 years ago.

I use loft white maybe once a week and i double sweep it out.
I would use Harkers if it was cheaper or maybe the one sani-dry tho iv never looked at that one
but about to now.

hi colin, yes I don't wonder.......when we used it for the loft in the 1980`s there wasn't anything else I don't think, no columbine whitener etc, so I just used what everyone else was using.....I think when I mixed it with sand it wasn't as bad, but it was horrible stuff.

I dare say these modern floor whiteners, columbine etc are still not good for your lungs, or the birds.....I reckon its still best to make sure we sweep as much up as we can, as any sort of dust isn't good I would imagine .

respiro san dry about 25 pound its made from oyster shell flour peppermint and eucalyptus fo 10k bucket.
seems abit steep the price for what it is.
I wonder if the horsey world uses something similar .

that's expensive, columbine is a tenner, or there abouts for a big sack.

barnie wrote:

Hazards of builders lime, wouldn't be for me........and can't imagine it doing the pigeons much good either.

"Not only is hydrated lime a very short-term solution (that only works to cover up the smell of ammonia) but it can also be a very dangerous product to use. If high concentrations of hydrated lime dust are inhaled, irritation to the respiratory tract will occur. Dermatitis can result from prolonged exposure and repeated skin contact and a risk of severe and permanent eye damage exists if hydrated lime comes in contact with the eyes. The product can cause burns in the presence of moisture and will cause irritation of the gastrointestinal tract when ingested. Personal protective equipment should be worn at all times when using hydrated lime".

Every thing in moderation I would suggest Barnie . If one understands the dangers involved & acts in a sensible manner with different things, certain benefits can be forth coming & builders lime is no different to many other things that have been used with our birds I suggest etc. Bleach, hydrochloric acid Pine O Clean to name but a few, as such .

ive read of fanciers using the likes of Bleach, hydrochloric acid in the drinking water before, and they must be mental, why would someone put bleach in water to drink...? I know pigeon men are always on the look out for the one thing that will make their birds healthy and win, but bleach is ridiculous ..........

David wrote:

ive read of fanciers using the likes of Bleach, hydrochloric acid in the drinking water before, and they must be mental, why would someone put bleach in water to drink...? I know pigeon men are always on the look out for the one thing that will make their birds healthy and win, but bleach is ridiculous ..........

As a certain member said here David each to their own etc . Bleach would you believe for many years was Big, Big on the American racing scene by what I have read as such. Even old grumpy Mr Eye Sign, was a great believer in its use .

If you abuse anything it can be detrimental, I, and I know many others, have used lime for many years and many still do, suffer no ill effects and their pigeons are heathier than most.

If you inject yourself when vaccinating pigeons or drink some of the gunge many give their pigeons I feel you would not feel too well.

Ammonia is not detrimental to a pigeons well being and in fact is an asset given by nature, if your loft smells of it then your ventilation needs attention.

When just relocating I took a job as weighman for Slaters Lime Quaries, which produced burnt lime for the steel industries, with three kilns, when a position in my own occupation arose I left but it was a worthwhile experience.

I use to slake the lime myself because it was too strong but still retained the strength to be ideal for deep litter.

To abuse anything will result in problems, you take the necessary safeguards for whatever you deal wth.

It is beyond me how anyone can inhale lime if treated in a proper manner, I dusted the perches with it topped up the deep litter when necessary and never had a problem, the latter was down for over 40 years unchanged and transferred from one loft to another at one stage , I onlyhad change it when it unfortunately got wet beyondr edemption, when I had to start a new lot.

It beats me when people have theories that contradict fact and actuality.

Regards.

forget all yer loft whiteners ,resp sano dry etc...and get on the blow torch

MISTY wrote:

If you abuse anything it can be detrimental, I, and I know many others, have used lime for many years and many still do, suffer no ill effects and their pigeons are heathier  than most.

If you inject yourself when vaccinating pigeons or drink some of the gunge many give their pigeons I feel you would not feel too well.

Ammonia is not detrimental to a pigeons well being and in fact is an asset given by nature, if your loft smells of it then your ventilation needs attention.

When just relocating I took a job as weighman for Slaters Lime Quaries, which produced burnt lime for the steel industries, with three kilns, when a position in my own occupation arose I left but it was a worthwhile experience.

I use to slake the lime myself because it was too strong  but still retained the strength to be ideal for deep litter.

To abuse anything will result in problems, you take the necessary safeguards for whatever you deal wth.

It is beyond me how anyone can inhale lime if treated in a proper manner, I dusted the perches with it topped up the deep litter when necessary and never had a problem, the latter was down for over 40 years unchanged and transferred from one loft to another at one stage , I onlyhad change it when it unfortunately got wet beyondr edemption, when I had to start a new lot.

It beats me when people have theories  that contradict fact and actuality.

Regards.  

In relation to your last quote above Misty maybe its because unfortuntley certain pigeon people I'm are as dumb as horse sh*te etc.

the san dri smells good but is dusty as hell stopped using it, use blanco once in blue moon when damp conditions and loft floor gets damp usually around November time otherwise nout on floor or perches, loft is sprayed every 4-6 weeks with jeyes fluid kills most things breathing. Remember uncle using lime back in 60's also had outside crapper half mile down garden and no hot water so we move on

redrog wrote:

the san dri smells good but is dusty as hell stopped using it, use blanco once in blue moon when damp conditions and loft floor gets damp usually around November time otherwise nout on floor or perches, loft is sprayed every 4-6 weeks with jeyes fluid kills most things breathing. Remember uncle using lime back in 60's also had outside crapper half mile down garden and no hot water so we move on

Fair point etc Redrog . The outside dunny scenario remember a young fella "well" who threw a brick at the dunny man, when he was collecting the local can as such & created a local disaster issue. Ran like hell he did & didn't come home till well after dark etc would you believe.