Heat! what heat?

Spain in parts 48 C. that's 118 fara. etc. Who's sending. Indeed just who do you think are the fancier there racing this week - end?
I well remember when the temperature reach 70 and it was news on the TV and media!
Now here we are expecting our birds to fly in nigh 100 F!

by Gord Chalmers » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:53 pm
A lot of old bird racing now appears to be over for the most part, or almost over, and fanciers are turning to training for the young bird series of races. At the moment, I have concerns about the welfare of racing birds, whether old or young, when I note the extremely hot conditions + very high levels of humidity (and the potential for the complicating factor of smog alerts) that are now occurring, especially in eastern Canada. Even in the usually dry west, there is currently a lot of standing water in fields coupled with water saturation of the soil as a result of continuous heavy rains and severe flooding problems, so the potential for the same combinations of very high heat (it's coming this week) and humidity to occur here is also very real.
Studies have shown that pigeons can fly from a distance of approximately 200 miles (320 km) in 4.25 hours while maintaining an average metabolic rate that is more than 17 times the resting level. The resulting heat production naturally raises their body temperature. It is a fact that under the extremely severe combined conditions of high environmental temperatures and high humidity, in training tosses and races, pigeons have a great deal of difficulty controlling their internal temperature. As a result, pigeons will normally stop flying when their core body temperature rises from an average resting value of about 104.5F (40.3C) to about 110F (43.3C) or more because of such conditions.
My point in raising this issue is that I feel very strongly that it is definitely inhumane to send birds racing (except possibly for shorter races that are liberated very early in the cooler morning) from the middle distance and longer races when they are held under these extremely severe conditions. I know, I know - the die-hards will argue that after all, these are merely birds, that nature will take care of them, that this is part of the natural selective process (it's not because in a natural setting, nature would curtail their normal activities under these conditions), that we have never held birds back in the past because of severe heat/humidity, and on and on with other indefensible protests. In my view the time is long past due for a critical look at this unreasonable aspect of the sport in Canada. It's time for individual fanciers, clubs, combines and yes, the CU too, to tackle this issue and to lay out standards of activity that are much more humane. (I note that workers in the terrible Lac Megantic tragedy now have to struggle in 50 C (122 F) heat and can only handle 15 minutes (max) of work at one time. We need to be as concerned for the welfare of our pigeons as we are for these workers. JMO. Gord.

Now getting back to heat and the birds flying. Yes I have no doubt in war years, even the Egyptians and romans if and when circumstances meant for it to happen - messages!


What do the 'Hot nations' do with their' pigeons regards the heat.
Also look at the Aussies and their' race days! Y/b birds raced only in Australia ! Check it out!

I, as you know, like a very high majority whom sadly won't voice their opinion if the 'Ear Ticklers' are about would actually welcome a later start. 2nd week in May or later.
Now June surely must be the time for short races.. to a little of middle races. This could serve as two purposes. Later and better breeding for starter. Light training then better start to the Inland races. The pigeons pencilled in for the longer and harder races could have the odd shorter races to freshen or condition them etc. End of July young birds could start racing into September. The old bird distance raced at that time would be going into middle distances and onto the longer and harder races in August.
Also many hens used for widowerhood could be raced in 2-5 different systems as the owner wants.
Indeed this would also help the birds in their racing as they could be rotated with the sexes. Smaller but better class of pigeons would ensue. Smaller teams and fewer losses. Strains and stresses of the minimised with better conditioned pigeons.

Will it ever happen?
Off course not. people hate change and get comfortable with their' habits. No two ways about that!

Yet WE love our pigeons … Mostly I believe that. We feed and water and care for them 365 days a years. Spend a lot of time, money and many others things take a back seat as we put our love of the pigeon before most else!

Now that last sentence says a lot. A lot of things and much truth.
Also on the outside looking in it says a lot in as much that we contradict our self's. Indeed a good case can easily be made that it is a fallacy, or best ONLY a half truth put forward.

Daz
In our country you are knocking your head against a brick wall attempting to make any changes.

I have advocated starting racing later in the year for the past 40 years, it would have many advantages for both pigeon and fancier alike.

Also later liberastions for the shorter races.

Bred at the right time youngsters need not go on the darkness system and there is no readon not to have races well into September and even November, the weather is more suitable regarding transportation and the prospect of the pigeons suffering from dehydration etc; is reduced.

Extreem cold does not adversely affect a pigeon as does over heating, in nature all animals have to forage afar for their food in Winter in the Summer it is local to feed the young etc;

I am afraid the sport has many things back to front but with the Old Brigade and their idiot supporters, mostly either in the commercial field or have been given a couple of young ones to grease their palms, matters will not change until the penny drops and it may be too late.

I have exposed the present set up as not fit for purpose over many years and never been challenged by them which should to any normal person say enpugh to change matters,

APATHY< APATHY.


Regards.

Daz wrote:

Now getting back to heat and the birds flying. Yes I have no doubt in war years, even the Egyptians and romans if and when circumstances  meant for it to happen - messages!


What do the 'Hot nations' do with their' pigeons regards the heat.
Also look at the Aussies and their' race days! Y/b birds raced only in Australia ! Check it out!

I, as you know, like a very high majority whom sadly won't voice their opinion if the 'Ear Ticklers' are about would actually welcome a later start. 2nd week in May or later.
Now June surely must be the time for short races.. to a little of middle races. This could serve as two purposes. Later and better breeding for starter. Light training then better start to the Inland races. The pigeons pencilled in for the longer and harder races could have the odd shorter races to freshen or condition them etc. End of July young birds could start racing into September. The old bird distance raced at that time would be going into middle distances and onto the longer and harder races in August.
Also many hens used for widowerhood could be raced in 2-5 different systems as the owner wants.
Indeed this would also help the birds in their racing as they could be rotated with the sexes. Smaller but better class of pigeons would ensue. Smaller teams and fewer losses. Strains and stresses of the minimised with better conditioned pigeons.

Will it ever happen?
Off course not. people hate change and get comfortable with their' habits. No two ways about that!

Yet WE love our pigeons … Mostly I believe that. We feed and water and care for them 365 days a years. Spend a lot of time, money and many others things take a back seat as we put our love of the pigeon before most else!

Now that last sentence says a lot. A lot of things and much truth.
Also on the outside looking in it says a lot in as much that we contradict our self's. Indeed a good case can easily be made that it is a fallacy, or best ONLY a half truth put forward.

Daz I know a wee bit, about Aussie conditions in hot weather etc & what pigeons could achieve 30/40 odd years ago there is impossible today to achieve as such on average from distance type races. Climate change sceptics, may argue its just a circle thing that is occurring & if one has patiens things will get back to normal type of thing, but for me that is pure waffle type talk which has no use today with how things are from my perspective in our sport. Change ones season, with when you start maybe or have the flexibility to race on a chosen day within a 7 day calendar circle are 2 ways that may help the issue from my perspective. To deny things are OK thou by those in charge & will be OK I would suggest is just like putting ones head in a bucket of sand & saying everything will be OK & just trust me & have faith as I have the smarts to know best etc is just pure garbage     to some degree, unfortunately from this old fella's point of view    .

Knackered. In my opinion many pigeons are not as tough as years ago. Due to many circumstances.

Hal,
You are right of course, both the health and longevity of performance have been bred out of present day pigeons, mainly through commercialism and the desire for profit by any means.

Hundreds if not thousands of pigeons that the owners are fully aware are rubbish but having paid a ransom for them they must get back their outlay, so over a period of time you get more and more useless and unhealthy pigeons needing constant medication.

II 1970 I said that we should not go continental and introduce all their methods etc; because we would also introduce all their problems.

In my opinion, if we had concentrated on our own pigeons in our own methods it would be the world wanting to buy all our pigeons, which would not have needed all the medication etc; to keep them alive.

But you cannot expect the money mad to consider anything other than how to make a fast buck.

Regards.

Good replies above.
In the U.S.U they re- introduce the Mountain lion... or rather bred and re - located them. It was a big thing in reality. So the place them in those places etc.
A few years own the line they saw that the lions weren' tas good as they should and hoped them to have been.
The saw deformities in the tails, shorter and slightly twisted etc.
The test showed that they were suffering from incest breeding! They wonder how this could be as nature dictates that this is seldom possible. After some time they hit the nail on the head. There was a motorway / were motorways surrounding their regions. So they built tunnels under these. Relocated the males and place un - related ones. this after a time solved the problem.
Dogs for instance- and pedigrees tend to have flaws now. Alsatians started to lose their back side, droop and curved downwards. The list is endless.

yes daz, I agree with your point about dogs, it seems they are breeding for the show ring, rather than what the breed was originally bred to do....its all about looks rather than practicality .

and like most things all about the £££££££

Also their' immune system, like our pigeons, have been shot to pieces Dave.
It is illegal, with good reason and proven that incest is against the law. Likewise near relatives... yet some the blood in sheer ignorance and spout that '''e done every thing I can / could for better results'! Eh!

this is why Pakistani / muslims tend to have a high rate of deformities , they very often marry cousins, which perpetuates down the line......cousin to cousin over a few generations produce children who cannot lead a normal life and need constant attention, therefore putting extra strain on the nhs and other services.

Likewise on our Pigeons David

Daz wrote:

Likewise on our Pigeons David

I don't know if anyone remembers a yb of mine found dead in the street outside my house a few weeks ago, I presumed it had hit wires, although there was no sign of injury....it just happened to be a brother to sister pairing, not intended, but it just happened so I kept the yb....wondering if there was some in breeding problem, that's why it "dropped dead" maybe ?

David wrote:

Daz wrote:

Likewise on our Pigeons David

I don't know if anyone remembers a yb of mine found dead in the street outside my house a few weeks ago, I presumed it had hit wires, although there was no sign of injury....it just happened to be a brother to sister pairing, not intended, but it just happened so I kept the yb....wondering if there was some in breeding problem, that's why it "dropped dead" maybe ?

Maybe maybe not etc Life's to short thou David to be worrying either way I would suggest.
*****

Doubt very much if inbreeding had anything to do with it, many fanciers have based their entire life in the sport by close in breeding.

There is no doubt it does have a long term detrimental effect by enhancing any problems that existed at the start.

But if it is a one off and there is nothing to actually go by?????.

Regards.

yes your right knackered, but ive also been concerned about a husband and wife neighbours of mine, im sure they are brother and sister, my mrs says I`m a nutcase, but I`m convinced they are.

David wrote:

yes your right knackered, but ive also been concerned about a husband and wife neighbours of mine, im sure they are brother and sister, my mrs says I`m a nutcase, but I`m convinced they are.

Be brave be up front with them David etc & just ask them as such. Could maybe make a life time friend there     maybe.

David,
You can worry about little things when the actual important things that affect everyone are not addressed.

If you are worried about brother and sister, just at an opportune moment say to the guy, if you know the ladies name, how is your sister ??? .


His reaction will either solve your problem or get you a black eye.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

David,
       You can worry about little things when the actual important things that affect everyone are not addressed.

      If you are worried about brother and sister, just at an opportune moment say to the guy, if you know the ladies name, how is your sister ??? .


     His reaction will either solve your problem or get you a black eye.

Regards.

.

MISTY wrote:

David,
       You can worry about little things when the actual important things that affect everyone are not addressed.

      If you are worried about brother and sister, just at an opportune moment say to the guy, if you know the ladies name, how is your sister ??? .


     His reaction will either solve your problem or get you a black eye.

Regards.

funny you should say that misty, I did just happen to mention it to one of his next door neighbours, who had been at loggerheads with them, he did mention it during a confrontation, but I don't know if it went down well...........I know they still hold hands when walking up the street, so it doesn't seem to have bothered them at all.        

p.s. I know they both have the same second name, so that leads me to believe they must be brother and sister, no other explanation for it eh ......

I also doubt that inbreeding had any thing to do with it.

Stu had a good pigeon from a NRCC race. Came back looking marvellous. Prepared it for the Lerwick Race. feed and rest etc.

Sent on the Wednesday - Thursday.
Said it was in absolute mint condition and fancied it to do well.
It came back in a box dead.
It ha died in the transporter pannier.
So he took it for tests as to why it had died. the report came back 'Canker'! I wasn't at all surprised.

Can remember canker being a problem 70 0dd years ago have never had a problem with it myself, other than a pair I was given, which I culled.

Having had a recent look at the problem, It is apparent that if a raptor eats a pigeon suffering from canker it will also get the problem and die. ????????.


Regards.

John Bellerby had a pigeon doing well, all of a sudden went down hill fast. frank Tasker told him it was a deep rooted canker, to treat full strength Baytril with a full strength Canker … different from any he had used before if possible.
Three weeks later it won well in the NRCC. Ron Davis - who writes for the R.P and B.H.W. told a good friend from Clackman club the same. Other well known fanciers have now accepted that many Illnesses are wrongly diagnosed, it being a strong rooted canker. Normal treatment is useless. There are 33 or more cankers, and they very quickly get immune from treatment. So after twice change the brand.
Canker is a yeast, like the Thrush one gets, especially the ladies. So Naystating is also very good.

we used to rub a match onto the canker in the mouth years ago, do idea if it worked, but there wasn't all these products about then if it remember rightly