Maybe of an help

Let's for fun, but moreso let us put thoughts and beliefs in help A. US and B. just as importantly any new comer or a person that may have an interest. Not for a moment forgetting everyone on the site that may garner a little understanding of an help.

Obviously it is a Chicken or egg starter … But then that is in itself a no goer. Would have to be Two! A cock bird or two eggs. But then again to eleiminate the chances of having at leat one pair it would take 10 eggs, or ten chickens mathematically to guarantee a pair of opposite sex.
Like wise to an extent is our pigeon game.
Loft first? Or reading up? Or visiting a fancier to learn.  Even when and where to get the pigeons/ Joining a club first... having youngster promised... Or stockbirds for y/b racing?
Then after much and many the thoughts carry on.

However at some time one will have to have a place for them to live in. Yes rabbit hutches upon rabbit hutches with great ventilation. A shielded nest box!

Now  You have time for a little thought I'd guess. Me! Well, if old birds I might build a loft for old birds you would be starting with. I wouldn't clip any wings personally. Would be an added cause of stress! They will be stressed out a bit any road. No wanting that for their breeding. Airvery will calm them ...
But would build an aviary for them to sit out all weathers if they want.

Then between now and then... and them breeding youngsters, you can design and build a loft to suit your self! Remember all them 'I'd wish I'd done this ...'.
But I would have an aviary for every section. Personally, I prefer one where the birds trap into. I used a drop door, then they had to go through Bob Wires to trap in. Great for settling the youngster too before letting out. IN and OUT of the avairy door. I make mine entirely in a wire mesh. Not the chicken stuff, but firm and robust. Yes, on support legs and trays underneath for cleaning out. Just pushed wood through the wires for perching.
The loft itself Had just two air bricks for ventilation. And some times I left the trap doors open at night. More than enough air circulation.
Was warm in winter, and cool in summer... Best made of Bricks, but the same principle applies with wood.
I've seen many traps placed above the aviaries... but slows trappings and may also entice the birds to hunch and not going in. If through the aviary they don't see a bird but hear them and trapping is usually very quick.

Once had  a very good and quick trapping device. They could land on te trapping board and drop straight through it. Instead of the wooden holes like many had / have when upright I did the same. Instead of being vertical I had them Horizontal.

I had a glass window in all sections... and placed Car window tinting. So was always a little dark and comfortable for the birds and their all-important nesting.

I feel  this maybe the one and only chance - maybe the last chance- to build a loft that suits you, and is practical for the well being and control of the birds.

Personally, when weaning, I took the youngster and placed and fed and watered them in the basket for a couple of days. Then I moved 'In the Basket' to their new loft. After 2 days I'd leave the basket open for two days or so. Them remove the basket.
Then open the Bob wires so that they could go in and out of the Aviary. Stress-free when opening the Aviary to let them out! They will go in and out on their' own. Indeed it is the very first Co of 5!

Wouldn't say disappointed, more surprised that no one has thoughts to put forward regards setting up a way to have and develop pigeons and their races.
I have put forward what I feel may be the right course to take for a new be, or one feeling it is time for a change.
Next part would / could be nests and breeding and a way forward.
Agreed these are my points of view and indeed aren't, nor could be set in stone.
However, it would be interesting for others to share their views of both past and present, or future regards place a system.

There has been numerous suggestions put forward regarding the future of the sport

Very few aspects have not been covered, if any.


From transportation, changing race times, costs, raptors, management, feeding housing, health, etc; etc; etc;


It is the inability of the majority to be bothered about anything other than their own little world that is the problem.


There is nothing complicated about a pigeon nor the manner in which to keep it in the manner to ensure it's well being, it is the fanciers who complicate matters.


Regards.

More interested in putting forward constructive ideas of ways and means of helping those in their' lofts.

We have been bleating and beating the drums on deaf ears of those exploiting and restricting the progress of our sport for many years now Misty. You being not least in this respect. Bilco, and me to a lesser degree, brought forward many of the such harm that they did and do! Which as you state fell / fall upon deaf ears. Own interests of theirs and their' cliché taking preference and proceeded none stop to their' own ends ... and stuff the grassroots!

Sad to say, though, it is and was always down to the 'Fancy' as a whole, for letting them get away with it by their' apathy and 'Not Concerned' attitude!.

Most unbelievably of all is, and was, that they moan and constantly whined to any and everyone bar those it should be aimed at! All not wanting to take a vote, to stand up and be counted. Waiting for someone else to do something for THEM!

No, I am/was more interested here in trying to get a format for anyone wanting to start up, or change. Was looking for a consensus of many ideas from many on here.

Can understand where you are coming from and if more fanciers were concerned something may arise to tempt more youngsters in the sport.


As for present fanciers, I feel chopping and changing everything according to the latest fads adds nothing but problems.


The basics for starting in the sport are within the means of most people, it is getting them interested that is the problem.


Unfortunately, there a very few young people without a phone of some kind in their hands even when going to school, do not know what they are looking at but it certainly is not pigeon lofts.


Cannot reconcile the present day attitudes and outlook with that of my childhood, great pity, feel all the changes have been negative rather than positive.


Regards.

I think the time to encourage more people into the sport past us by in about the 80s maybe a bit earlier.
On allotments anyway.
You didn't want kids/youths hanging around or coming into your garden to look at the pigeons incase they came back later when you weren't there.
You were either brought up around them or had a mate who was.
Seems to be that generation thats missing
30/40 odd year olds who would have kids themselves now....
It seems that way here anyway.

In my youth living in a mining village pigeons were the main source of enjoyment and conversation, if two people went out of the village a year it was talk of the town., hardly anyone went on holiday, early 40s when I became involved with our feathered friends.

Fanciers who had children encouraged them to become involved, fanciers let children sit with them on race days and when their own parents were not involved, during the times the pigeons were let out, which was every spare moment.


Miners would come home and straight to the loft and the pigeons were out for most of the time the fanciers were not at work.


Every encouragement was given to the youngsters, today fanciers would not let a youngster near the loft in many instances, only the grass root fanciers maintain some semblance of encouraging youngsters and all the emphasis is on giving the pigeons rest etc;


Doubt very much, if a youngster of 8 today I would think pigeon racing was a reasonable alternative to other options, not because I would not love our feathered friends but because of the overall state the sport is in.


Sad, so very, very, sad.


Regards.

Yeah ex mining village here shut early 80s same people here mostly but built new houses so a lot of new comers.fone gone flat ha

I agree with both Misty and F/W regards the sport dyeing. Also a different era and past times.

Many countries the same regards pigeon keeping.

Then heard regards Hals country that many OLDER folks were / are taking an interest. Mny retiring and looking for a new interest / hobby.

Sadly its not just pigeons. Many clubs and organizations that rely on youngsters joining the ranks are in the same boat.
20 yrs ago our village had 4 cricket teams, juniors, 2nd team, 1st team and veterans. Mid week, saturday and sunday games. Now they struggle to get 11 as a single team.
Same with football, always 2 Sunday morning teams, now there's none. Darts teams are folding every year. The snooker club has long gone. Very little in the way of community togetherness.
No one seems to keep a few budgies or canaries anymore. Allottments going to waste, was always a waiting list to get one. Pigeon club folded 20 yrs ago.
Young people find things more exciting elsewhere whether we like it or not. They've never had so much choice but I find if it involves getting off their backsides and getting stuck in or committing to anything they're happier sitting in front of TV or messing about with a phone. Social side of life changing for past few generations.

when I was a youngster there were pigeon lofts on every street..........along my street alone there was almost pigeon lofts every few doors away, I got interested in them because my older brother kept them, but nowadays, youngsters are more interested in being brainwashed by the programs on tv, or more interested in playing on their phones or computers / games etc.

if no one is coming into the pigeon hobby, then no family member can follow in there footsteps........pubs are closing so no where to congregate, no where for our culture / way of life to continue.

it is just another product of the islamification of Britain.

David wrote:

when I was a youngster there were pigeon lofts on every street..........along my street alone there was almost pigeon lofts every few doors away, I got interested in them because my older brother kept them, but nowadays, youngsters are more interested in being brainwashed by the programs on tv, or more interested in playing on their phones or computers / games etc.

if no one is coming into the pigeon hobby, then no family member can follow in there footsteps........pubs are closing so no where to congregate, no where for our culture / way of life to continue.

it is just another product of the islamification of Britain.

Like a few of my Sudanese thug types David etc to change the status quo there as such with your Islam issue if so I can do a quick round up here as such & send them all over to you asap if you like .

no thank you knackered, we`ve enough of those sort here already......to say they are a "minority" , you see an awful lot of them.............

David wrote:

  no thank you knackered, we`ve enough of those sort here already......to say they are a "minority" , you see an awful lot of them.............

As FW said here you sent your rabble misfit criminal  & degenerate types down my way 200 odd years ago David etc so just thought it was about time to return the favour type of thing from my end here now .  

If we deported all the miss fits and undesirables and un naturals along with the druggies and criminals, starting with our MPs, our little island would have no fear of flooding, would rise feet, but would feel more than sorry for those who received them.


Far worse situation than when those who stole an apple were sent to far off places.



Regards.

If we deported all the miss fits and undesirables and un naturals along with the druggies and criminals, starting with our MPs, our little island would have no fear of flooding, would rise feet, but would feel more than sorry for those who received them.


Far worse situation than when those who stole an apple were sent to far off places.



Regards.

You mean like we use to... Pomm's: Prisoner of My Majesty service.
Every nation has a fair share.
Here we only protect the 'Haves' whom bolster their gains and wealth at Plebs expence.  Us 'Have Nots'  have been groom that the 'Well To do' were born to have the right!
Unfortunately a very large percentage still believe it AND stupidly believe - or kid themselves - that they will share the wealth to us.

Like Gaddafi , Hussain etc. and others that did ... Gosh the U.S. AND Us quickly put a stop to that ...

Mind, to get back on track let's leave alone the system they have took to and was their choice.

Lets move forward a step of two.
I've often heard, as no doubt you have.
'I can't understand it. I get mum to take the birds twice, even threes a week. A 30 mile trainer and 50 mile. Sometime another 50 mile trainer. Tuesday to Thursday.
they come in good time. Race over the roof top and pretty much most go straight in. But come race day I am 10 minutes or more behind'! I can't understand it!

Now this person is keen, Wants to learn!

Now you / me don't want to, and wouldn't smirk and give them crap replies with a smug face now would we! Many, too many would and do..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(A typical answer I heard from  Two very good Fanciers - One the Sec - agree supposedly. First asks 'What strain are they? 'Krauths' is the answer. Well what you feeding them on? Bamfords all round'. AYE! A sharp intake of breathe. Krauths! You have to feed Krauths Very heavy, maybe sprinkle some lemon juice on the feed would help. Get the off Hoper fed'!....'

I spouted of much to them!  Stating that they were a disgrace and should be a shamed of them self. Told the lad that they were taking the Pee' etc. that THEY were, regardless of strain STILL pigeons! In fact took him aside and explained what and why and how you feed pigeons does have a bearing. Indeed hopper feeding is great … But they only know what they need and take as such. So some time a little tweak may be needed. But not often.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the first paragraph, how would you answer? Don't be shy!

What time is your last feed and what ?

Never come across fanciers who would take the mickey out of anyone seeking advice, maybe in banter but not as a micky taker.


Have always found from very young age most fanciers would do their best to help any other fancier.


Although for various reasons their are fancier I would not want to associate with.



I cannot understand some of the questions posed, a pigeon is a pigeon, it's constitution in respect of food is the same in ALL pigeons.


Feeding depends to a limited extent on what you are going to ask of the pigeon, FUEL, is then determined by some based on science rather than nature.


BIG MISTAKE.


Chopping and changing feed several times a week cannot do the pigeons gut any favours and in particular when the feed used varies considerably along with numerous additives, the latter given in an unnatural manner rather than through normal feed.


May work for so long but ruin the engine, hence most races won by yearlings or two year olds.



Always used farm feed until it became almost impossible to get it locally.


So used the polished feed, the same mix throughout the year, with a little more hemp and linseed prior to the moult.


With open hole the pigeons picked about in the garden and replaced that which polishing had removed.


Never had any health problems, pigeons flew well for several years, some six or seven etc;


Fed twice a day as much as they wanted throughout the year.


Basic fed onto deep litter, small area for the seed mix which left over could be removed.


Often left linseed and hemp.


But garlic in the water all the time I think was as beneficial as anything.



Many roads to Rome just choose the right ones that get you their before anyone else.



Regards.

I never come across fanciers who would take the mickey out of anyone seeking advice, maybe in banter but not as a Micky taker.
Then you must be very thankful you live where you do Misty.

Been in seven clubs and have - sad to say - met, heard and seen bad manners, smug down put. Downright rude and inexcusable language and downright lies to the not so good fanciers in all seven clubs — outrageous behaviour in three. A secretary hammered and put in the hospital. Couldn't stand the fellow personally like most. I had known for many years, and he gave me stick and put me down, which left me going to another club, 10 miles away, to have the birds sent to the races and timed in struck off and velocities done. Meaning I had to forward both days to the Sec. Because I would have hit him myself, mind you, at that Clubs dinner when he got beat up I would have stepped on and stopped it.
Will post later some, just some of the 'Nasties' in ALL seven clubs I've been a member. Have to say only where have you been to be so lucky.


Anyway, back to this topic Regards all being treated the same, fed and watered and exercised, On race day doesn't that mean, in your thesis that all would land on the trap board together and fight to get in. We all knot that is not the case!

We also know that certain fanciers see in moments what others won't in a lifetime. That same fanciers continue with new stock and like cream keep rising to the top.

I just thought that we could put together some thesis and ideas about what and why happenings happen.
I use a newcomer, keen and a long time member, also keen that doesn't excel.
They give of their best. Buy the best birds their' pockets will allow, often far more than even the top flyers often and look after their' birds. They have 'Good blood and Genes', often on par, if not even better than the guys that beat them each week!.
I just thought that an online moot / discussion and friendly debate would, and could, be of interest to some. Even of help to some!

Could not agree more regarding bad behaviour of some fanciers, as I mentioned, some I would not pass the time of day with, but even some of those, gave pigeons to new starters etc;. and as far as I am concerned never heard them running new starters down.

Could write a book on bad behaviour of some fanciers


In fact it was partly why I stopped racing because I could not bare to be in the same room as one female
fancier, knowing all she had done to ruin the club.


To get back to the sport.


You could never get a number of pigeons, if put to a reasonable test, all coming back together, even were everything else equal, because each pigeon is an individual, with individual capabilities.

Silk purse, comes to mind.


The aim is to give each pigeon the opportunity to perform to it's maximum and after doing so, be capable of doing it again, arriving in ROME in a reasonable condition and not being ruined by using the wrong fuel.


If you treat all the same in a proper manner the best will usually shine, but there are numerous unknown
events in a race that no one can cater for which does and always will affect the result.


Makes me laugh when I see a fanciers stood outside a over 300' loft holding hundreds of pigeons, having the aid of studs best to give them the prospect of selling rubbish to the unwary and wonder what a young lad would think about his chances of being involved in the competitive side of the sport.????.


Regards.

'....If you treat all the same in a proper manner the best will usually shine, but there are numerous unknown events in a race that no one can cater for which does and always will affect the result....'.


Makes me laugh when I see a fanciers stood outside a over 300' loft holding hundreds of pigeons, having the aid of studs best to give them the prospect of selling rubbish to the unwary and wonder what a young lad would think about his chances of being involved in the competitive side of the sport.????.
Yep agree there. - Will post sometime regards... Might be after I'm back, going up near you Misty next week for a break.

Now then Misty, if a fancier buys the best and give the best, and is keen why is that they maybe last home every race day.
Taking in my point that in training they come well and clock well so to speak.
You know some as we all do. Indeed some of us too lol.