breeding better pigeons

something i found interesting

Artical 2 : The added selection process can save you time and money.



After studying and analyzing all the tools and traits that I have heard or read about, only the traits that are true each and every time were used to form my grading system.

The Bieche 6 Common Denominator Grading System of selecting breeders covers more detail than most because it shows both strengths and weaknesses of each bird. In fact when a bird is graded you have a complete report card on every bird. By knowing the strength or weaknesses of a pigeon then and only then can you place the correct two birds together to come up with a better product. In all parts of the world there is a greater percent of excellent flyers than there are great breeders. When it comes to breeding very few pigeon fanciers can claim to have elevated a family. A good example of this would be in my own area, home of the Vernazza Janssens and the Galaxy Devriendts. In both cases the pigeons of today are not the same quality of the past. The art of placing the proper birds together is the key factor in either maintaining a family or better yet elevating a family.



Listed are My 6 Common Denominators:



Using my Common Denominator grading system I find very few perfect pigeons. If you think you have a loft full of perfect pigeons then there is no way to go except down. Matching strengths with weakness is the key to a better product. For Example; A good eye mated to a good eye normally gets you more of the same which is no improvment. Should you have a hen with an excellent eye, good throat and good character, who carries the excellent eye genes. Place her with a cock that is strong in all the other traits but needs a little better eye. Several youngsters from this pair will show an over all improvement. In grading pigeons if the first 3 traits do not have at least good, very





good or excellent then there is no need to go any further. This pigeon may have the body to

get the job done but if he does not have the drive or the proper tools this pigeon will not

turn out to be your next foundation cock or hen. To show my grading and selection of breeder's works I will point out several examples in article to follow. Because of this process our breeders of today are better than the original imports.



Number 1 : The eye in total



In many cases, there is too much importance placed on the eye. On the other hand, leaving the eye out in selecting breeders would also be a mistake. Only traits in the eye that hold true each and every time are used. The eye should be placed high in the head. If you extend an imaginary line from the slit between the upper and lower beak back to the eye. It should be placed at least in the middle of the line or better yet above the line. Good eyes come in all colors but most have a lot of contrast or granulation in the iris. Stay away from large pupils. A good circle of correlation around the pupil is very important. If the circle of correlation becomes too thin in the make up of the family then the family as a whole is on its way down. Eye movement or quick dilation is an added plus. I am not into speed, distance lines or even clusters. For every bird with speed lines I can show you another that is a top short distance racer that has no speed lines and so on.



Number 2 : Throat



The throat is my favorite. Even at an early age you can tell if this bird will be a top breeder. Not 90% but 100% of the top breeders in the world that I have handled all have great throats. I look for several things while I have the beak open: Starting with health. No dark redness in color or signs of canker. The opening in the back of the larynx or tongue should be in the shape of an oval, not completely open or round. This opening is used for extra oxygen when needed. If it is wide open already then you have no extra oxygen supply if needed. A hen that is in labor will have an enlarged opening but remember she is in labor and has the extra added stress at this time. At the back of the throat you can see two sheets hanging down that come together from the top of the throat

Number 5 : Skeleton


called curtains. The best breeders have a very

thin line between the curtains, no wider than a human hair. The birds that have a wide space or curved line between the curtains need a lot of help when it comes to being a great breeder. Behind the Curtains there is a vein that carries the oxygen to the brain. In the good breeders you can see this vein very easily. In the best breeders this vein rather than going straight up will be curved or better yet twisted then extends upward. This shaped vein will carry more oxygen to the brain than the others.



Number 3 : Character



The true will or fight of the pigeon. Many fanciers believed that pulling or tugging the beak as seen by Pet de Weerd was the only way he judged character. This was not true. There are 3 good ways of checking for character that I use. The first one and best one is what the Germans call a ringer. Pigeons that when picked up will fight to be free. Then comes the tugging of the beak. A pigeon that does not want their beak held also has character. After these two tests if you still find no response than I will place my finger under the wing of the pigeon to give it some support. If the bird's wing when extended vibrates this is also good vitality or character sign. You do not need positive results in all three tests. If none of the 3 tests are positive then the bird is plain lazy. Lazy birds will not win races and will pass this trait on to their offspring.



Number 4 : Balance and Buoyancy



For a pigeon to travel an extended distance he must be balanced. Checking the balance of a pigeon comes with practice. A pigeon placed in your hand should just lay there, not front or rear heavy. It is an added plus if the birds are also buoyant. Buoyant pigeons are very light in the hand. Light as cork the saying goes. Some pigeons seem to be buoyant all the time while others get more buoyant as they get into form.







The Skeleton of a pigeon is compared to the foundation of a house. Without a good foundation the house or the pigeon in this case can be worthless. The breast bone should not be very thin. The 2 back vent bones or cartilage holding in the cut of the pigeon should not be thin and very flexible. If you can move the vent bones back and forth too easily this is a bad trait. Never mate two birds that have this bad trait together. While applying a little pressure on the rump of a pigeon no sound should be heard. If a pigeon is weak in this area he will make a grunting sound. In this case the body structure is not perfect. Regarding the wing: I also like to see a medium or short forearm. I like to compare the wing structure of a pigeon to the oar of a row boat having 3 main parts. First the handle section) then the pivot point and last the extremity. The handle or the forearm in the case of the pigeon should be short. This gives greater movement to the extremity. Moving the pivot point out creates a longer forearm giving you less leverage at the other end.

I am not a wing man but I do like to see the last 3 flight feathers well ventilated. Not too sharp like a steak knife and not to wide like a butter knife.



Number 6 : Feather Quality



All top families of pigeons have great feather quality. The feather covering being excellent and the texture of the feathers very soft and smooth. The smoother the feather the less drag you have. Extra drag over several hundred miles can and will wear a pigeon down. Knowing the difference between a very good feather quality and just the average pigeon comes with practice. By placing other fancier's race birds into the basket, in a short period of time, you will be able to tell the difference between good or bad feather quality. Loft sanitation, feed mixtures including quality of grain can all add or decrease the feather quality as well. To much direct sun will also fade and diminish feather quality.

The eye part is intresting, something I was saying to David the other day, about a couple of birds I had seen with eyes high up, near the top of the head, then that says the person likes to see the eyes high up.

alex, dont worry yourself too much over eyesign.................. feeding, exercising and management are more important.

DAVID wrote:

alex, dont worry yourself too much over eyesign.................. feeding, exercising and management are more important.

david this is a guide for breeding better birds

DAVID wrote:

alex, dont worry yourself too much over eyesign.................. feeding, exercising and management are more important.

Yes david, dont think anything to eyesign mate...not at all. What I do like though is to see the eyes really high up.

dont get me wrong alex, i too like to see a nice rich eye and do think that certain types of eyes within a family do perform better then others...........if a fancier has had a certain family for a few years he will get to know which are the ones to look out for, but personally i dont take too much notice of the eye when selecting pairings as my way of choosing will be best to best or if im successfull racing in the future it will be winner to winner.....

yes your right david, like the eyes to be bright but wouldnt pair purely by eyes

alex, i once saw on a big site a couple of years ago a member put a few eye pictures on.........these eyes looked absolutely fantastic and he asked other members for their opinion on them and which they thought would breed winners or would be winners racing.

the topic got all sorts of wierd and wonderful theories as to which birds would do well and everyone thought they knew it all, until the poster finally told them all they eyes belonged to fantails..............

need i say more.

Just proves how reliable eyesign is

interesting Ian, makes you wonder

Lightning wrote:

interesting Ian, makes you wonder

yes i know got me guessing now

Lightning wrote:

interesting Ian, makes you wonder

Will agree

are you sure don

Yes

what you all wondering and agreeing on..............

about the different methods 0f grading pigens

Well next year 2013 for me because here we dont race young pigeons I will give you the full low down on eyesign results as I will have 100 yearlings to race in 2013 bred only from eyesign pairings. All the parents will have been selected from 130 odd random old pigeons, for their eyes by their eyes to breed for racers and younger stock.

It will probably be the best ever test of eyesign, the task for the birds will be making the top 20 % of the race result on a weekly basis as is the way we race here in Portugal. It will be a simple maths sum to determine random against eyesign.

No good knocking eyesign if you dont understand it fully. Many people select by body and thats CRAP because for every 1 good bodied bird that is consistant there are 100 more that are not. The problem with just blindly putting best to best is that eventually you breed the circle of correlation out of the family of birds. (the ring around the pupil) sometimes the pairings are lucky and for a while breed winners but you can see when someone has been linebreeding too much in the eyes of the offspring and when a cross Usually a hen is needed to be brought in.

I do not proffess to be an eyesign expert but I can get a pigeon fit and healthy to do a job at the very highest level as I have already done , A pigeon is not an ornament to look at and make excuses for and if it doesnt work consistantly Hard its gone from the loft whatever its pedigree.
I think that the results of my experiment on a huge scale with the help of an eyesign expert to breed the young will prove the case one way or another.

I will of course post all eyes from the super eyes on here for you to see before the 2013 race year, it will be fun and hopefully because I am in the position to do so and because I have the drive I can finally put this argument to bed, lol Kev.

hi kev, im sorry to say you will never put the arguement of eyesign to bed............lol, its just like any other theory, there is no hard facts of which eye will win races or breed winners......the % of winners bred on eyesign alone is no more than birds bred on wing, tail theory, infact if eyesign was a proven fact these eyesign experts would be unbeatable either racing or breeding and also they would only need keep proven birds in their lofts to breed the minimum amount of ybs,


i doubt if these renowned eyesign experts are amoung the top flyers in the uk........

David wrote:

hi kev, im sorry to say you will never put the arguement of eyesign to bed............lol, its just like any other theory, there is no hard facts of which eye will win races or breed winners......the % of winners bred on eyesign alone is no more than birds bred on wing, tail theory, infact if eyesign was a proven fact these eyesign experts would be unbeatable either racing or breeding and also they would only need keep proven birds in their lofts to breed the minimum amount of ybs,


i doubt if these renowned eyesign experts are amoung the top flyers in the uk........

hi David, I will put it to bed for me as I fully understand statistical analysis and the chances of probability, whether or not it suits anybody else is their prerogative. I will know. As I Have already said and common sense implies . Why should an eysign expert be a good racer of pigeons, surely they are more likely to be a great breeder of pigeons.

Olympic athletes and footballers have many people picking and deciding when and where or if they will play and these people choosing them have never competed at the highest level of sport but can find people who can compete.

As long as I can prove it to myself with statistical analysis then that is all that matters , if i cannot then I will also say so. It will be my scientific experiment and the result will be a fact one way or the other, not open any more to any discussion with me. lol Kev

let us know your findings kev i would be most interested in fact i have 3 pairings in mind based on eyesign myself atb

Hi Darren . I will do but as I say the birds in question will not be paired together until Decenber this year to breed YBs that will race as yearlings in 2013.
I have though brought maybe foolishly at great expense as you know some Roland Janssens here to Portugal( as they will jump in at 165 miles) from Louella lofts and my eyesign man Myron Kulik says that a lot of the birds I have bred from the pure pair are blow home racing machines and I never told him the parentage, but he is correct they will race from March this year
Contary to popular belief it takes a special pigeon to win in a blow home contest just as much as it does in a facewind race

I hope he is right because we always get stuffed at our loft location in a blow home normaly, and rise to the top in a tougher race . I believe These Roland Janssens if you cross them will do any distance. time will tell lol , Kev

spencerline wrote:

Well next year 2013 for me because here we dont race young pigeons I will give you the full low down on eyesign results as I will have 100 yearlings to race in 2013 bred only from eyesign pairings. All the parents will have been selected from 130 odd random old pigeons, for their eyes by their eyes to breed for racers and younger stock.

It will probably be the best ever test of eyesign, the task for the birds will be making the top 20 % of the race result on a weekly basis as is the way we race here in Portugal. It will be a simple maths sum to determine random against eyesign.

No good knocking eyesign if you dont understand it fully. Many people select by body and thats CRAP because for every 1 good bodied bird that is consistant there are 100 more that are not. The problem with just blindly putting best to best is that eventually you breed the circle of correlation out of the family of birds. (the ring around the pupil) sometimes the pairings are lucky and for a while breed winners but you can see when someone has been linebreeding too much in the eyes of the offspring and when a cross Usually a hen is needed to be brought in.

I do not proffess to be an eyesign expert but I can get a pigeon fit and healthy to do a job at the very highest level as I have already done , A pigeon is not an ornament to look at and make excuses for and if it doesnt work consistantly Hard its gone from the loft whatever its pedigree.
I think that the results of my experiment on a huge scale with the help of an eyesign expert to breed the young will prove the case one way or another.

I will of course post all eyes from the super eyes on here for you to see before the 2013 race year, it will be fun and hopefully because I am in the position to do so and because I have the drive I can finally put this argument to bed, lol Kev.

Hi spence,its a nice thought,but it will prove nothing whatsoever mate,130 as a test,your having a laugh,100,000 might just give a few leanings,but its an impossiblity,you can never conduct a proper test,way to many variables mate,even test birds in different sections lower or higher perches will give hiccups in the theroy,,perhaps bit more air,sunlight,kitchen/streetlights playing on loft in evening,the list goes on forever mate,but if it makes bit of intrest for you ,go ahead

Hi Grizzle cock, it will prove everyting to me as the breeders have been chosen from 130 possible breeding birds to breed young to race against thousands of other birds every week and here in portugal we have 3 races on the same day at different distances, besides that my control is the other birds from the other breeders we have that are mated together via race results(4 years of those birds)

The top 20 percent count in the official result so it is a simple Maths equation to see if the (CHOSEN ONES) are over acheieving against not only the thousands of other fanciers birds in this Hotbed of pigeon racing but their loftmates too. Kev

Hi Grizzlecock, I forgot to add that in my opinion the greatest test would be oneloft races , where all birds get the same treatment. What perch they get is what perch they earn thats where their character kicks in.

If you gotta mollycoddle birds I dont want them, the cream will rise to the top when the chips are dowm, surely that is why we feed them the very best corn and look after their health.

spencerline wrote:

Hi Grizzlecock, I forgot to add that in my opinion the greatest test would be oneloft races , where all birds get the same treatment. What perch they get is what perch they earn thats where their character kicks in.

If you gotta mollycoddle birds I dont want them, the cream will rise to the top when the chips are dowm, surely that is why we feed them the very best corn and look after their health.

Why do you think all the birds would get the same treatment,impossible mate,can never happen,each section will have variables,in everything from time factors of sunshine,airflow,even from perch to perch, what they eat,how much they drink,what type of grit they bother to take,where they stand or lay in the basket, the list is never ending,to many possibles or probables to contend with.
Why should you moddycoddle birds,and why would you think the cream will rise to the top,no way mate,the birds that adjust fast enough will usually get results in the 1st season,if you could continue through their yearling stage,2/3/4/5/6/7 year olds would probable tell you a totally different story.