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Forum Syndicate 2019
Pigeon World Forum Syndicate Bird takes 44th Place, in the 2019 RPRA One Loft Final.The Bird is Frans Zwol Bloodline, Bred and supplied by Darren Palmer (Oldstrain)
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Pigeon World Forum Syndicate also takes 100th Place, in the 2019 RPRA One Loft Final. The Bird is Frans Zwol Bloodline, Bred and supplied by Darren Palmer (Oldstrain) Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine 20497337-174028
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Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine Empty
PostSubject: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 2:08 pm

Liverpool fancier 66 year old Terry Kirman has been suspended by Liverpool Amal after droppings samples were tested positive for Caffeine.
Read my full article here
http://ukracingpigeonsforsale.yolasite.com/pigeon-related-articles--news.php


Banned Substances In Pigeon Racing In The UK.



Do We Have A right To Know?



An article by Gary Burgess



Once again an air controversy is surrounding the pigeon fancy here in the UK.

The topic of the day or should I say the past few weeks, has been the news that an extremely well known pigeon fancier from Huyton, Liverpool, has been suspended for three years by the Liverpool Amal, for dope test on his pigeons, which tested positive for Caffeine.

Although the amount of caffeine that was detected was an extremely low amount of 400/1,000,000,000 so in a percentage figure it is 0.000039999999999999996%



Think this is confusing, well I invite you to peruse the RPRA Rule book as the RPRA puts it. This is what it states on the application to become a member of the Association.

Not! that you have read the rules and fully understood them, maybe if they wrote that they may fear that nobody would join the RPRA.

Peruse the rules I have.

Understood them I have not.

Maybe it would take someone of a higher intelligence, to actually understand their rules.



PART P: PERFORMANCE ENHANCING

199. The Council of the R.P.R.A. shall make

rules and regulations prohibiting the use of

performance enhancing drugs/substances.

Contravention of these rules and

regulations shall entail suspension, for a

minimum period of three years; or

expulsion.

See Appendix G



Now that sounds clear enough doesn’t it. So now lets peruse the rulebook book some more to find appendix G.



APPENDIX ‘G’

(SEE RULE 199)

PERFORMANCE ENHANCING

DRUGS/SUBSTANCES

1. These Rules are drawn up by the

Council of the Royal Pigeon Racing

Association under the powers granted by

virtue of Rule 199.

2. The use in pigeons of the following are

strictly forbidden:

ANABOLIC STEROIDS, BETAAGONISTS,

CORTICO STEROIDS,

ANTI-INFLAMMATORY NON-STEROIDS,

OPIATES, ANALGESICS,

PERFORMANCE ENHANCING

STIMULANTS, SYNTHETIC

HORMONES, ANY DRUG FOUND TO

BE PERFORMANCE ENHANCING PLUS

ANY SUBSTANCE WHICH MAY BE

USED IN AN ATTEMPT TO MASK THE

ABOVE



Now you have perused the rules, we have now examined these rules thoroughly, with care, this is what Peruse means.

Do you now understand what a banned substance is in pigeon racing here in the UK.

Of course you don’t, not unless you have a degree in Pharmaceutical Medicine.

So now, still confused we seek help from the general Manager of the RPRA Mr Stewart Wardrop. We ask him to explain to us, to offer us some clarification as to what is a banned substance and do they know that they are openly selling banned substances in the British Homing World, which I might add is the official journal of the RPRA.



Thank you for your email requesting clarification regarding products sold in the BHW.
The simple answer is NO - we cannot assure you that products advertised in the BHW are free of forbidden substances - indeed the BHW makes it very clear ( in writing in
every issue ) that it cannot guarantee the accuracy of any statements in any copy published.
As a publication it has no facility to " licence or police " the multitude of medications that are available for purchase in the magazine ( or via other means ) - any more than
it can " police " where individual members source their products or what they give their birds.
That numerous medications are advertised for sale in the fancy press and on line - DOES NOT absolve the Fancier from their responsibility.
As in all sport it is the individuals responsibility to know what is being administered and to understand the potential effects.
At present I can only repeat the following advise with regard to medications purchased through any publication or on line - BUYER BEWARE !
Basically if you are unsure what any medication may do or what it contains then don't use it !
Until the supplier confirms in writing what it contains and whether it complies with RPRA Rules ( see section 2 of appendix G ( copied below) as it clearly put the onus
onto fanciers to this ! ) Appendix G of the RPRA rules is very clear !
Regards. Stewart.


The use in pigeons of the following are strictly forbidden : ANABOLIC STEROIDS, BETAAGONISTS, CORTICO STEROIDS, ANTI - INFLAMITORY NON - STEROIDS, OPIATES,
ANALGESICS, PERFORMANCE ENHANCING STIMULANTS, SYNTHETIC HORMONES, ANY DRUG FOUND TO BE PERFORMANCE ENHANCING PLUS ANY SUBSTANCE WHICH MAY BE
USED I AN ATTEMPT TO MASK THE ABOVE.
When products of which the composition is not specified are administered , we advise fanciers ask attestation from their pharmacist or vet stating that the product does not contain forbidden substances.


Considering that this is our ruling body and so called protector of the sport of pigeon racing, I think it’s an appalling response.

Obviously if the rules are quite as clear as they like to think they are, then there would be no confusion and we would all know what is deemed a banned substance.



To me, the normal run of the mill fancier, I would probably have a clue to one or two substances mentioned here in the RPRA rules.

ANABOLIC STEROIDS, what body builders use, hooray I got one.

BETAAGONISTS, I have never ever heard of it and clearly do not have a clue.

CORTICO STEROIDS, a steroid maybe cortisone I know this because I had an injection of one in my arm for an injury.

ANTI - INFLAMITORY NON – STEROIDS, maybe a painkiller Like Ibuprofen.

OPIATES this could cover a whole range of things, certainly not something I would ever dream of giving to my birds.

ANALGESICS, Maybe a painkiller like distalgesics.

PERFORMANCE ENHANCING STIMULANTS, this is where to me, there is so much confusion. Is a stimulant, a drug, or an additive. Is it Glucose, Dextrose, Sucrose, Creatine, Carnitine etc. Without some sort of clear guide we are totally in the dark.

SYNTHETIC HORMONES, I never had a clue that such things existed.

ANY DRUG FOUND TO BE PERFORMANCE ENHANCING PLUS ANY SUBSTANCE WHICH MAY BE USED I AN ATTEMPT TO MASK THE ABOVE

Confused, confused, confused.



I consider myself to be quite reasonably educated, but I can be quite honestly, hand on heart, I am non the wiser. I dare say that there will be hundreds if not thousands of other fanciers out there who will be in the same boat as I, totally clueless.

So you see RPRA, it is far from simple and we just do not know what these substances are or what we should be aware of.



This week I have been to more than one stockist of certain products and as Mr Wardrop said ask do these products contain any banned products, one replied I haven’t got a clue. The other said they should be ok they sell um in the British Homing World.

Mr Wardrop and the RPRA, please rectify the huge problem before many other, honest, decent fanciers fall foul to these products.



Now let me take you back to Tuesday 18th September 2012, to Huyton,, in Liverpool, Merseyside.

A 66 year old Fancier who was born and bred in the area, who has kept pigeons for 50 years and has successfully raced pigeons competitively for 40 years, was given the bad the news that he has been suspended by the Liverpool Amal for a period of three years after droppings that had been taken from his loft some four months previous, had been sent to laboratory in South Africa for testing and came back positive for traces of Caffeine.
That fancier was 66 year old Terry Kirman, from Huyton, Liverpool.

A man, who has passionately dedicated his life to breeding and racing his pigeons.

Over the last 40 years Terry has topped the mighty Liverpool Amal no less than 25 times.

That is some record, Terry flies in the Roby FC, which is affiliated to the Liverpool Amal.

Terry’s son Tony Kirman, tells me that his Father Terry is absolutely devastated at the decision and cannot believe that this has happened to him.

He said pigeons are my Dads life they are his reason to get up in a morning.

All his working life as a pub Licensee, he has always made time to tend to his birds and has always managed for many years to keep them racing competitively.

Terry has been racing pigeons at the highest level for many years, many of his friends just cannot believe that this happened to him.

Over the years, Terry has helped countless new fanciers to the sport by breeding them pigeons free of charge or on occasions even loaning them his priceless stock pigeons.

One fancier told me that Terry has given more birds to charity sales than any other fancier he knows.

One thing that has been echoed throughout the fancy, is that Terry is an extremely well admired fancier who well respected by his fellow fanciers far and wide.



It has become apparent that many fanciers believe that Terry is innocent of the allegations made by the Liverpool Amal and that Terry would not need to drug his pigeons to make them win.



This is not the first time that Terry has been on the receiving end of allegations as his birds droppings were tested five races previous and came back all clear.



Terry has made no secret of the products he has been using and the only product he can seriously think of that contained anything like caffeine was from a well respected company of pigeon products here in the UK Versele Laga, These were a product called Supra Pills. Terry has said he has been using these throughout the season and was in fact using them the last time his pigeons droppings were analysed and they came back clear.



The news of Terry’s suspension has sent shock waves throughout the fancy, this has now been the topic of conversation for many weeks. Fanciers from all over the country have been sending Terry messages of support, telling him to appeal the Liverpools Amal’s decision. Terry who is now retired and is a pensioner has been left with a huge bill for the testing of his birds droppings which is somewhere in the region of £750.

A review of Terry’s case has been set for the 4th January 2013 and will then go to a delegates and an RPRA drug council meeting sometime in Feb/March 2013.

Many fanciers have conveyed messages to him to seek legal representation and to take this to the highest level, many fanciers have now suggested setting up a fighting fund to raise money for Terry’s legal fees by taking his case to court to clear his good name.
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:35 pm

Gaz not certain but i think there may be a meeting by someone in the next few weeks what i'm sure of is the RPRA must be looking for a way out and still keep face george
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:42 pm

Theres been an meeting scheduled at the Amal for the 4th Jan 2013 - Then its going to the rpra delegates drug council in feb/march.
Terry has now got a legal team on board and are wanting to push it all the way.
The RPRA are still standing firm, you can see this by the response from them to emails.
They will have to do something extraordinary to get out of this one as the fancy seems to be getting behind this one.
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:43 pm

there is a RPRA drug meeting at the end of October this will be there only way out and save face george
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:45 pm

How many Other LOFTs were tested for "DRUGs"
Surely they tested ALL lofts.
Numbers PLEASE

rainbow wrote:
Gaz not certain but i think there may be a meeting by someone in the next few weeks what i'm sure of is the RPRA must be looking for a way out and still keep face george
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:45 pm

Right George cheers for that mate. I wasn't aware of that one.
Cheers George
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:47 pm

No mate just winners of certain races, he has had two tests done this year, the first one was negative.
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:47 pm

in this case it was a winning loft and was his 5th or 6th drug test all the others test were clean george
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:51 pm

But there seems to much confusion surrounding the banned substances as there is no list published.
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 3:57 pm

thats when you may see a new list
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 4:03 pm

We need to George, because in all fairness we need to be made more aware of what is deemed a banned substance, each of the categories should have sub categories that explain what they are.
The RPRA must think we all have degrees in pharmaceutical medicine.
They say its perfectly clear. It is not.
I consider myself quite educated, but honestly I cant make much sense of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 5:53 pm

excellent gaz, very interesting and informative.........it doesnt apear to me that fanciers actually know what is a banned substance, and the rpra saying they are not responsible for advertisements is a disgraceful thing to say.......
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 6:04 pm

Thats a great write up Gary. Absolutely excellent, every credit to you mate Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 8:31 pm

Gaz b wrote:
But there seems to much confusion surrounding the banned substances as there is no list published.

absolute madness theres not a list ....should be one published in the bhw before the start of every racing season but thats the rpra for you....to busy having cosy little dinners and getting their mug shots taken with donations to charity with our money ffs charity starts at home first all proceeds from blackpool should be pumped into the bop problem until we get it sorted jmo
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 pm

Cheers guys, you know me,lol
It just goes to show how blasé the RPRA are about things.
Any other sport or organisation would have it all spelled out, but not the rpra.
Imagine if you got done for a motoring offence.

But you get charged with motoring offence, that's it.

When you got to court your solicitor would head for a dismissal.

Because for every law/rule etc. There must be subsections, paragraphs that can be referenced. This explains that law/rule in detail so there is no room for error and it also protects both parties organisation/member.

so for example you would be charged with breaking the rule, which would be contrary to the heading of the rule, subsection explaining what is deemed to be the offence. Paragraph which explains the the finer points.

(used for example only)

PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS/SUBSTANCES Rule 199 appendix G


PERFORMANCE ENHANCING STIMULANTS

Paragraph 1 Any member found using glucose or any derivative of this substance including, Dextrose, Sucrose, Lactose, fructose or any other monosaccharides in whatever other form to enhance the performance of a racing pigeon.


This is how it should be presented with no room for error, so that both parties are well aware of the substances and its derivatives.
It's not hard and its certainly not rocket science.




Last edited by Gaz b on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 8:51 pm

your post has certainly cause a bit of interest gaz, weve 56 visitors on site....... cheers lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 8:55 pm

LOL there will probably be more, lets hope the RPRA sees sense and views how hideous and incomplete their rule actually is.

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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 9:18 pm

Brilliant article Gaz pure quality mate study study
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skytx


Posts : 143
Join date : 2012-09-15
Age : 88
Location : Texas -USA

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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyThu Oct 11, 2012 10:55 pm

O BOY---They only Test the Winners?

SO----I gues it is "O"K" to give your Birds "DRUGS" if you don't win.

Don Webb wrote:
Brilliant article Gaz pure quality mate study study
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colin a
Chipping
Chipping



Posts : 142
Join date : 2012-07-13
Age : 61

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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyFri Oct 12, 2012 2:13 am

well said skytk
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Gaz b
Oldbird
Oldbird
Gaz b


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Age : 61
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyFri Oct 12, 2012 8:24 am

That appears to be the case Don scratch
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Alex
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Alex


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Join date : 2010-09-22
Age : 85

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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyFri Oct 12, 2012 9:39 am

is hemp banned?
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Gaz b
Oldbird
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Gaz b


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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyFri Oct 12, 2012 9:47 am

Good question Alex.
It's not an opiate, I don't really think it could be classed as an performance enhancing drug either.
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David
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David


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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyFri Oct 12, 2012 9:50 am

skytx wrote:
O BOY---They only Test the Winners?

SO----I gues it is "O"K" to give your Birds "DRUGS" if you don't win.

Don Webb wrote:
Brilliant article Gaz pure quality mate study study

good point don, they should do random tests on any pigeons, not just winners....
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Alex
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Alex


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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine EmptyFri Oct 12, 2012 9:53 am

Gaz b wrote:
Good question Alex.
It's not an opiate, I don't really think it could be classed as an performance enhancing drug either.
might they say it was masking something?...its a bit of a weird one because it would contain traces of thc and its a stimulant. we already know how many .0 percent can be detected
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PostSubject: Re: Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine   Liverpool Fancier Suspended For Three Years For Caffeine Empty

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