eye for martyn and don

Birdy if you have been reading the previous posts you will find the answer, its because racing eyes can be anything...that's what I HAVE SAID FROM THE START OF THE POSTS.

i under stand what your saying martin in a round about way but most who study eyesign from what i know bye birds with breeding eyes correct me if im wrong
but if they own birds with multi prizes that dont have a breeding eye you cant tell me they wouldnt pair them up and take the y/b from them


please answer me this do you select your breeders on eyesign
what if i was to ask you to look at a multi prize winner and it had a weak eye
would you bye that bird or reject it cus theres more winning birds with bad eyes thn good ones

I see what your saying, what I meant by the comment "racing eyes can be anything" is that you can have a racing eye which shows nothing of the ability of the pigeon.

I have handled brilliant racers and cannot honestly say that if they were in sale I would have bought them based on the eye so would have missed out, but not really as it would have had to have been a yb to race it and ybs eyes arent developed enough to know.

I only breed by eyes alone, but take into consideration the line or pedigree as well but if the eyes don't match they don't go together with me.
I have lots of very good racers and have bred rubbish from them but they have weak breeding eyes anyway but I try them.

I have some good racers with good eyes and they do breed the best birds, however I have changed my system recently and don't bother breeding from the racers at all anymore. That's what the stock loft is for, but I have bred an odd bird from a racer with a poorer breeding eye and instead of racing it I bred with it and it bred good birds so you keep the racers line through its children provided they have a breeders eye?

martyn what are your thoughts on this eye

Another great picture, what I do is zoom in with editing programme to eliminate the bird and just leave the eye and wattle.

That bird has the same eye as the first 3 I posted typical racing eye with little or no signs either way. not a breeding eye that stands out but probably a better eye than the first 3...imo. Its what I call a chestnut eye.

as ive said im not an eyesign man but do like to see a strong colour
i think its  a hard subject to explain unless its studied  a lot. think ile have to get
a friend i know try to show me more

as i say im not knocking it so ile have to do some homework and look more into it
thanks for explaining

have to lugh now cus looking t the last one you put on and the one before that ide take the second to last one cus it looks stronger in colour and richer
am i learning lol

No probs birdy Im just going on what I have been taught from an old eye sign chap I used to know who was brilliant. I base my knowledge and observations on my personal experience and its my guide,

If I buy a pigeon even if it costs me a ton of money and when I open the box I don't like the eye, I will give it away first chance I get to a novice or who ever wants it, that's how much I go by the eyes. lol

To be honest apart from saying the last 3 are great eyes, I couldn't really evaluate in a first second third so you might be right mate....lol

i wonder if horse and greyhound trainers look for eyesign
bet they would call us crack pots lol
the chap i know is john wheatcroft don knows him well he is a great stock man and he is an eyesign nut and breeds the good for many

apart from the odd ( whale eyes) associated with coloured horses and dogs...all dogs and horses have the same eyes they are dark.

any animal whos eyes shine at you with a torch reflecting back have eyes which are all the same. Humans and pigeons eyes don't shine back at you with a torch and they are all different like finger prints.

That's what make the pigeons eye unique in the animal world.

learn something new everyday

why dont you put a post up martyn of 6 eyes of your choice and put them in order you would pic them ie 1 to 6 then let us all try to predict which order you selected them see how close them members can get leave it on for a week and then let us know how close we got

birdy2011 wrote:

had a mate that had a pigeon he called it the cluster cock it bred winner after winner

heres on

http://www.tmakowecki.com/UltBeye.shtml

lets not forget its a theory the bird still has to have a brain and staminer good strong back and muscles and the  will to get home without these it can have 3 eyes but wont make a world beater

G that eye is something different and very few and far between have read the Bob Fleming book thanks to John Wheatcroft

But the eye you are taking about yes it shows clusters but you have to look deep into the eye (pupil) and they are hard to find I have seen loads of eyes and I have only ever seen cluster on 3 pigeons which includes Tom's eye

But you have to look deep into the eye with extra magnifying power to see the clusters

This is JMO as I know nothing

yeah ide say with a good glass or someway of seeing deeper you would see more
i cant hold a bloody eye glass to my eye but no problem with a beer glass
to my gob
whats the eye glasses like thats fixed in the frame are they any good
i see a lot of auctions in blackpool and a lot of birds being praised yet have
done nothing only thing they have is the blood
think ile go and look at there eyes

what about the 3D effect of the pupil area also read that the cluster can move within the pupil ?

birdy2011 wrote:

not a clue about eyesiign george to be honest but wouldnt knock it
how ever them in the know and say weahter a bird will be a racer or a breeder should if its all teue know the short cut to buying champion pigeons

heres an instance for you this year we put 7 pigeons in an eyes sign class for young birds all of which had won prizes and fed cards yet not one won a card in the eyesign class of which 64 was in the class now either all ours have weak eyes me or my mate no nothing about eyes or it wasnt the type the judge wasnt looking for the only thing we came away with was the facted they came off proven breeders and won

so in my eyes ile stick to 90%of the rest of the bird rather than the eyes

G to be honest it's what the judge likes entered in an eye sign show with pigeons that won at the old comrades show never won a prize when asking the judge what his thoughts were of my bird he said had nothing to offer at breeding

The thing the judge did not know was the eye sign hen breed winner and was responsible for over 60 prizewinners

And before you comment the 60+ winners had her blood running through them
Children, grand children, great grand children eat

So at show level it's not the pigeon but what the judge likes but I think that's the same with everything in the show world

birdy2011 wrote:

yeah ide say with a good glass or someway of seeing deeper you would see more  
i cant hold a bloody eye glass to my  eye  but no problem with a beer glass
to my gob
whats the eye glasses like thats fixed in the frame are they any good
i see a lot of auctions in blackpool and a lot of birds being praised yet have
done nothing only thing they have is the blood
think ile go and look at there eyes

ya be better looking into jo's eyes

oldstrain wrote:

what about the 3D effect of the pupil area also read that the cluster can move within the pupil ?

Yes they can as I also have the information what Tom talks about

Rudderfett wrote:

Pure quality eye Martyn

rainbow wrote:

martyn what are your thoughts  on this eye

For me George this is a typical racking eye nothing special very flat and dishy

oldstrain wrote:

rainbow wrote:

of course it is graham so is the wing, ,throat  and tail what I want to know is the pairing of the eyes and what is a no no

now I do like to see a pigeon with a nice set of curtains (throat)

Here is just a small test for everyone here seeing as you mentioned the curtain O/S etc. Which would you choose as the deciding factor "Only one" at 500 miles into a headwind type of thing, to get you on the winners circle. The curtain or a nice eye with eye sign .

rainbow wrote:

martyn  this bird is 9 years old

Now this is a different eye for me it's a good breeding eye but needs a strong eye to get the best out of the pigeon in question

This eye will get better with age as the older a pigeon get the better the pigmentations stand out and improve

very interesting topic, nice to see more of our members taking part and getting involved..........even though we don't all agree on certain points is good to hear different opinions.

Will agree with you there David