I know some top flyers in my area tried these with very little success guys who are topping the fed and doing well in the combine maybe they had the wrong ones who knows but they were directs....they used to specialise in yb racing if I remember correctly ,they cant all be bad pigeons though can they its like a lot of lofts they get a good name and sell from every breeding pair when theirs probably only a handful of producers in that loft not everybody gets the cream jmo usually the first imports are the best to create a market for their birds atb