Numbers game?

halcanada wrote:

Interesting Hal Good luck to T Mak there but that I suggest is stacking the deck in your favour some what, with 90 out of 337 birds as such .

If these are open races and attracting only 8 participating lofts, then the sport must be in real trouble.

All other things being equal, a fancier sending a large percentage of the entrants has a large advantage and this should be taken into account when accessing a fancier.

I would personally not get any pleasure knowing I had gained anything by a clear advantage.




Regards.

Notice he's got a few 5 yr olds on the sheet, rare these days especially under 200 miles.

barnie wrote:

Notice he's got a few 5 yr olds on the sheet, rare these days especially under 200 miles.

Maybe so Barnie but one never quite knows etc with the old ring caper as some what deceptive at times I would suggest.
*****

that toms been doing well for years gotta hand it to him always there or theirabout

Yes he does fly well. 98% of mine are from him. The old Jules Gallez Jannsen strain. Told me the reds from those bloodlines now only represent 20% of his birds. He has friends in Europe and imports very many. Bachelor now, farm and sheep all sold, net worth heck of a lot more than most people. He has offered to sell me birds off his winners and imports for a small dollar value. I ordered beginnig of year then cancelled. Knowing I had to downsize. Thinking here if the old strain flew that well why do I need others? One race wonders. Therein comes the crunch. Selection. Not older pedigrees. Pigeons brains and ability. Ability one cam measure. The other one cannot. With any degree of success any way.

halcanada wrote:

Yes he does fly well. 98% of mine are from him. The old Jules Gallez Jannsen strain. Told me the reds from those bloodlines now only represent 20% of his birds. He has friends in Europe and imports very many. Bachelor now, farm and sheep all sold, net worth heck of a lot more than most people. He has offered to sell me birds off his winners and imports for a small dollar value. I ordered beginnig of year then cancelled. Knowing I had to downsize. Thinking here if the old strain flew that well why do I need others? One race wonders. Therein comes the crunch. Selection. Not older pedigrees. Pigeons brains and ability. Ability one cam measure. The other one cannot. With any degree of success any way.

Have many of the old Jules Gallez books here Hal still, & dollar for dollar it was money well spent from my point of view. Could maybe have done with spell check           back in their day as such with the spelling issue/interpretation but best not to be to picky I suggest when the information there on average was of a very high standard from my perspective.

spoke with tom about his red fox janssens as they were known here ...also about a few other things he is a very knowledgeable man and a decent sort of guy who took the time to explain

oldstrain wrote:

spoke with tom about his red fox janssens as they were known here ...also about a few other things he is a very knowledgeable man and a decent sort of guy who took the time to explain

True he was a sheep farmer O/S so nothing more needs to be said etc .

Could tell you a few jokes about Sheep Farmers but do not feel like spending time at HM Pleasure.

As I have said numerous times, present day fanciers are only interested in short term success and said many years ago what the result would be.

Pigeons are offten spent forces within a couple of years, yearlings win more races now than many years ago.

Fanciers chop and change and only very few have what could be called a family of their own, and that to my mind should be the aim of all fanciers, yes obtain the best you can obtain to start with but progressively introduce on a sensible basis to improve what you already have.

Often fanciers get rid of better pigeons than those they replace with the flavour of the day.

The best pigeons many fanciers ever have are gift and exchange ones, but the commercial boys know how to confuse the fancioers wanting instant success and do avery good job.

Regards.

Tom was the one who explained that if loft flying training not required. If they are not flying enough he flags them, old and young.

halcanada wrote:

Tom was the one who explained that if loft flying training not required. If they are not flying enough he flags them, old and young.

Maybe so in Canada Hal but if you sit on your a**e here I suggest with just only loft flying etc you will be on a hiding to nothing sadly on average. Seen enough here thou to know one doesn't have to flog them to death, but basket work still is a requirement in the big picture.

Yes basket work is required. Especially for young ones. For old birds..debatable.

A lesson learned the hard way is never forgotten.

Too many fanciers molly coddle their pigeons regarding many aspects and disregard the main issues.

A pigeon that has the option of flying in all the daylight hours will gain nothing from being sent up and down the road in a basket, they know their way home and will instinctively know where the water and food is when sent to the races, which will be the only learning curve they need and only once.

I have proved this for many years, young birds never been in a basket as young birds and straight into races as yearlings etc;

I do not know if it affects them inicially but if it does, it does not affect their ability to win races later if they are good enough.

You cannot beat facts based on actual experience and I know others who have done the same.

Of course there is a big difference between a pigeon having 100% freedom and one fasetned up 90% of the time and fed and treated like a Robot.


Regards.

Misty. Many cannot have an open loft. YB's are better off for being trained via the basket. Placed high in a yearling race this year with an unraced but basket trained as a young bird. You can expound your ideas over and over but if your way was the only way then you would have won every race.

Hal,
I doubt if anyone engaged in a club with a reasonable membership will win every race, there are numerous implications involved.

What I try to point out is that there is a different way and ways in which to attain the same ends, some the pigeons no doubt will enjoy others are Robots.

If winning is the only thimg that gives a fancier pleasure, then the vast majority will be disappointed every race.

I never won every race, far from it, but I usualy won the ones I set out to win.. my aim was to win from every race point I raced in from both North and South and I did this several times over, with the exception of the Dunbar YB race and I eventually won 3 years before I had to part with them and this gave me more pleasure than all the others put together.


But winning was only a small part of the enjoyment, the best part was having a close relationship with the pigeons individualy and seeing them enjoying their freedom 24 hours a day.


I would get no pleasure whatsoever from the methods some present day fanciers adopt and nor do the pigeons.


I perhaps did not make it clear that I did race the young ones normally but never basket trained nor sent them training, other than straight on the training transporter on the very odd occasion, and not every year.


I bred vey few young birds and lost very few, of course not all were good ones but you can breed from the best and sort out from a small number than 100s.


You do of course need the right pigeons to start with.

There are many different ways to an end some very rough some smooth I prefer the latter.

Regards.