Future problems.

With the corn harvest disaster here I forsee problems with the feed. Vomotoxins. 3ppm is cut off for livestock feed. Some is testing as high as 43ppm. Hopefully will go to make ethanol but I suspect some will get into wild bird mixes and pigeon mixes. Bigger profit margin. Vomotoxin corn insurance is 75 cents a bushel. Good corn $4.50. Corn I bought I sieve before use. Tremendous amount of dust. But cleaning does get rid of 30% mycotoxins apparently. Will have to substitute the corn for some other grain.

Never seen a wild bird polishing it's feed, nor many ill ones.

Just read an article that includes the former use of animal manure for crops and the present chemicals used.

In his considered and educated opinion todays corn etc; has been depleted in the things that matter to such a great extent as to be hard to recognize.

So it is not the bulk that matters but the quality, to ration a pigeon based on feed that is sub standard may be one of the reasons many pigeons have neither the strength nor the desire to return from a race and find the Town more suitable where they can enjoy a mixture of mothers pride and candy floss etc; the townies around us appear fitter than many pigeons sat on fancy perches and are air born for many hours of the day
proving their fitness etc.

As I have said numerous times the manner in which the sport has approached problems will lead to even worse problems and you ain't seen nothing yet.


Regards,

Pellets plus no corn dove mix I am thinking of now.

Misty. Cleaning is to reduce the dust that contains the fungus. I have never seen a wild bird polish feed either. Nor have I seen a wild bird race from hundereds of miles. Wid birds pick and choose. Pigeons eat what is given. No option. So removing fungus from the feed is a bonus for them and I. Common sense. I see every day sparrows and finches on the feeder sorting out grains. What they do not eat falls to the floor. They go down and eat that stuff when all else is gone. Why my old friend turns up. Feeder from the feeder. But again, everyone has differing opinions.

Wild birds eat whats available, never seen a chip or bread tree but they eat them polished or not Anyone who fieldwalks after the crop as been cut but not baled will see the carcasses of the ones that didn't make it,mainly woodpigeons that died from cocci,canker or mouldy seed that has been crushed into the ground down the tram lines used to water and then spray off to ripen the whole field at the same time,like a type of weak weed killer.

Feed mill tomorow. Corn is crap. Dust and I assume= mould. Wild bird feed now. Cannot risk it. Mating some in 3 weeks. Natural or not it is just common sense. Avoid the problems.

Picked up bag of mix and bag of Purine Layer pellets. 17% protien etc,. All should be ok now. Will have to probably cut the rations back until they eat the pellets.

Mouldy seeds.. gosh didn't know that seeds had to go mouldy before being able to sprout life and grow.

Worked the farms, Done much bale carting. Pulled on the sledge. Gone back at night to catch the rabbits hiding in the tunnels we provided them with in the SPRING.
See the riddling, and the ploughed fields NOW full of birds after the minerals. Never seen what you have F/W. Glad the rest of the country isn't6 like that.

Was a time when some put the feed in stocking to clean … Never made a difference at all. Just gave their kids something to do - or try to out of lol.

Indeed it was a fact that most pigeons spent much time after the race season on the fields. It was very much encouraged.
Indeed the best youngster ever produced are actually the late bred.

Also the farmers Wheat and Barley - a late crop - Not cleaned etc. were the very main feed ti at least Mid March or later. Some of us all year round. Even Acorn and horse beans stored and the pigeons diet every year. they flew the hard races and the distance ones. Problem at seasons end was what had to go and make room for the youngsters.

Now under the over used rubbish of 'Feeding the World' which realistically means 'Making more money Norman Borlaug AND A COUPLE OF OTHERS introduce Hybrid feeds such as wheat / barley, and now most, that produce 10 times more to the stalk etc.
Trouble was / is that the 'Staff of life' as bread was once called no longer existed. trouble also arose how to sale this, for want of a better word Rubbish! It had no substance. Days of a door step bread with a piece of cheese for the days work quickly vanished.
Gosh a little squeeze and the fingers nigh met in the middle!
So, although 2-4 months old they invented the 'Tweak of Freshness'. Still many- including my wife with a red face does. Can't break the habit.

Feed the hungry to the detrement of health for Profit. Now the G.M crops! Why? because they can patern it!

Canandian Flour cost 2 and half to 3 times as much when I make my own bread - Mostly. Ok they still hae 'Graded Flour'!
That's whay some bakery shops have long queues constantly to buy bread at £8 or £9 a loave or over.

GM crops were developed to give more yield and have less problems with drought and flooding. Means more money for the farmer. Also means less cost for the consumer. Pigs have been genetically modified. My son runs a 2000 sow herd. African pig crossed with regular pig. Bigger litters, healthier. York pig was developed for some traits also the Hampshire. Same with all variations of animals. One cannot live in the past. The 'good old days' are long gone. Fortunately in most cases. The next breakthrough in racing pigeons will be as now, selecting by traits. Why there are so many 'breeds'. Genetically selected or modified. Some one some where will introduce a gene from another bird, to strengthen all the exsisting traits good pigeons have. Matter of time only. Artificial insemination is used by a few in Europe. So mass produced birds weeded down to a few will be selected. Then bred from etc,. GM crops are not any different than pigeon trait selection. Genes are modified by racing or feather type or whatever. Benefits of fielding are losing their usefulness. Fertilizers, weed sprays, manure applications all detrimental to all birds.  Has to be lived with and fanciers have to adjust. It will not change.
PS. The pigs organs are closer to a humans than chimps or monkeys. Does not Arnold Swatennger have a heart valve supplied by a pig? Many do.

https://www.conservativehome.com/the-deep-end/2014/03/the-real-reason-we-should-be-wary-of-gm-crops.html
Public resistance to GM crops is rooted in a perception that genetic modification is unnatural and, by association, unhealthy. In fact, there’s yet to be a single scientifically documented case of ‘GM poisoning’ anywhere in the world.
However, this doesn’t mean that GM is safe. The real dangers of the technology are more subtle than the ‘frankenfood’ headlines would suggest, but potentially more significant.
In a disquieting article for Wired, Brandon Keim looks at the example of ‘Bt corn’ – one of the most successful GM crop varieties produced so far:
“Until Bt corn was genetically altered to be poisonous to the pests, rootworms used to cause billions of dollars in damage to U.S. crops. Named for the pesticidal toxin-producing Bacillus thuringiensis gene it contains, Bt corn now accounts for three-quarters of the U.S. corn crop…”
10 problems
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/07/16/10-problems-genetically-modified-foods-are-already-causing/
https://gizmodo.com/the-real-reason-people-are-still-so-confused-about-gene-1777194860
Amidst the clamor over genetically modified crops, there’s an underlying point that’s still being missed: Nobody really knows what constitutes a genetically modified crop.
A new report from the National Academies of Sciences attempts to synthesize more than 900 existing research studies on GM crops into a single analysis. The salient finding of the report is that GM crops are just as safe as conventional ones. Within that conclusion, though, is an even more important truth. The reason there is no difference is because GM crops and conventional crops are the same thing.

Attempts to determine what is and isn’t a GM crop have yet to come up with any clear definition of where to draw the line. The very act of planting a farm is an act of selecting which traits we want or don’t want in the fruits and vegetables we eat. Many of the resulting hybrids (like broccoli or bananas) have been around for so long that they rarely trip the GM alarm. Yet, they too are genetically-altered crops.
It’s this blurred distinction that the report’s authors cite when making their ultimate recommendation to evaluate GM crops as individual products, not as a technological process. “All technologies for improving plant genetics—whether GE or conventional—can change foods in ways that raise safety issues,” the report notes. “Therefore, it is the product that should be regulated, not the process.”
The truth is that food safety for any crop needs to be monitored at every point in the supply chain—in the field, in the packing plants, and in our kitchens and restaurants. GM crops aren’t some special category of crops. They’re not even new. GM crops are simply crops.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wheat-toxic/
U.S. farmers are saturating wheat crops with the herbicide Roundup as a desiccant before each harvest, causing an increase in wheat-related ailments.
The real reasons are MONEY making and because they can be pattern!
A must read: http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GMCIFA.php

Funny though how there a lot more people with wheat intolerance now.

Not really F/W. It has been piddled about with over that last 60 -70 years enormously.

Gluten is a protein found primarily in wheat, barley and rye. If a person has a gluten intolerance, this protein can cause digestive problems such as gassiness, abdominal pain or diarrhea.

Gluten intolerance is sometimes confused with Celiac disease, or thought of as a food allergy. While avoiding particular foods is a treatment strategy for all three, these are not the same conditions.

Food intolerances such as gluten involve the digestive system. With a food allergy, the immune system overreacts to a particular food causing symptoms that are potentially serious or even live threatening. Celiac disease is an inherited autoimmune disorder that can damage the small intestine.

It matters not what is involved piddle about with nature at your cost.

Every existing living thing was originally capable of being healthy and carrying out what it was created for, then along comes mankind and thinks he knows better and can improve matter, SOME MISTAKE.

Mankind has been successful in some cases of dealing with problems he has caused in the first place, drugs of many kinds etc; but had he not interfered in the first place ?????.

Every problem has a cause and mankind is the main one.


Regards.

Daz wrote:

https://www.conservativehome.com/the-deep-end/2014/03/the-real-reason-we-should-be-wary-of-gm-crops.html
Public resistance to GM crops is rooted in a perception that genetic modification is unnatural and, by association, unhealthy. In fact, there’s yet to be a single scientifically documented case of ‘GM poisoning’ anywhere in the world.
However, this doesn’t mean that GM is safe. The real dangers of the technology are more subtle than the ‘frankenfood’ headlines would suggest, but potentially more significant.
In a disquieting article for Wired, Brandon Keim looks at the example of ‘Bt corn’ – one of the most successful GM crop varieties produced so far:
“Until Bt corn was genetically altered to be poisonous to the pests, rootworms used to cause billions of dollars in damage to U.S. crops. Named for the pesticidal toxin-producing Bacillus thuringiensis gene it contains, Bt corn now accounts for three-quarters of the U.S. corn crop…”
10 problems
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/07/16/10-problems-genetically-modified-foods-are-already-causing/
https://gizmodo.com/the-real-reason-people-are-still-so-confused-about-gene-1777194860
Amidst the clamor over genetically modified crops, there’s an underlying point that’s still being missed: Nobody really knows what constitutes a genetically modified crop.
A new report from the National Academies of Sciences attempts to synthesize more than 900 existing research studies on GM crops into a single analysis. The salient finding of the report is that GM crops are just as safe as conventional ones. Within that conclusion, though, is an even more important truth. The reason there is no difference is because GM crops and conventional crops are the same thing.

Attempts to determine what is and isn’t a GM crop have yet to come up with any clear definition of where to draw the line. The very act of planting a farm is an act of selecting which traits we want or don’t want in the fruits and vegetables we eat. Many of the resulting hybrids (like broccoli or bananas) have been around for so long that they rarely trip the GM alarm. Yet, they too are genetically-altered crops.
It’s this blurred distinction that the report’s authors cite when making their ultimate recommendation to evaluate GM crops as individual products, not as a technological process. “All technologies for improving plant genetics—whether GE or conventional—can change foods in ways that raise safety issues,” the report notes. “Therefore, it is the product that should be regulated, not the process.”
The truth is that food safety for any crop needs to be monitored at every point in the supply chain—in the field, in the packing plants, and in our kitchens and restaurants. GM crops aren’t some special category of crops. They’re not even new. GM crops are simply crops.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wheat-toxic/
U.S. farmers are saturating wheat crops with the herbicide Roundup as a desiccant before each harvest, causing an increase in wheat-related ailments.
The real reasons are MONEY making and because they can be pattern!
A must read: http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GMCIFA.php

Interesting read Daz     "Where to draw the line etc" Had a big court case here a few years ago about that same issue. Organic type farmer on one side of the road. GM type farmer on the other side "20 metres away" GM farmer had the backing of the Monsanto types as such neighbour only had unfortunately a few local donations to fight his cause . Like to guess who won the day as such .

MISTY wrote:

It matters not what is involved piddle about with nature at your cost.

Every existing living thing was originally capable of being healthy and carrying out what it was created for, then along comes mankind and thinks he knows better and can improve matter, SOME MISTAKE.

Mankind has been successful in some cases of dealing with problems he has caused in the first place, drugs of many kinds etc; but had he not interfered in the first place ?????.

Every problem has a cause and mankind is the main one.


Regards.

Misty. So much doom and gloom! You hate to be in the human race? No point complaining. Have to live with it.

Not complaining, Hal, just stating facts to repute inaccuracies.

No need to point out doom and gloom, you would have to be totally devoid of any feelings not to see the frailties in man kinds existing hand and past actions resulting in the present state of the worlds affairs.

One reason being the majority, so long as they are happy could not care less about anything else which allows the ???????? to do as they wish and then complain when they themselves become victims.


The biggest problemes even in our sport has always been the Im Alright Jacks.

Wish there was something nice to say about the prospects at the present time, perhaps you could enlighten me.




Regards.

Personally I feel I know exactly where Misty is coming from.
The old saying 'Eat beetroot long enough and you will be red'! Has a very valid and realistic truth.
Mankind has constantly chipped away.


The baloney of Helping to feed the hungry. Rubbish! Any and every fund raised goes in the main to further unscrupulous pockets.
As long as 2 and a half percent goes to the cause 'I've done my bit' syndrome I'm alright Jack … stuff you'!  Weer can't change things so don't matter'! They will do what they like any way regardless what I say'!
All just excuses to turn a blind eye.
Though in all honesty and truth I agree much is now the sad truth.
But where we can / should / could and would have helped, refrain instead of trying to make it right and ok, I feel I and many more could an should hold their heads down in shame.

Other things like save 'Save the Tiger' which have £billions upon £Billions in banks who just say 'Well at present we can't do much - in real term they don't do a jot - but when we can! ... we will have the funds to do so'!
The World Food organisation in 2013 stated it is deployable to grow enough food to feed 20 Billion! Yet Billions are allowed to starve to death or suffer from Malnutrition at best! (I Believe 2/3rd of the USA suffer from Malnutrition)
So they have cut down food to be grown to feed 13 Billion! There are at best only 7 -8 Billion TOPS on this planet. Greed and holding out for profit S EH!
Now the plead IS for money AFTER admitting that food is not the issue! It is because of the cost of TRANSPORTING IT! Rubbish again, Tanker and a Millions of Aircrafts fly one way empty! For a small remuneration it could be done easily. OK of Course 'The robbers and cheats' employed to distribute it have to have the bulk etc. etc. I can, could write pages of facts in this regards. The Tsunami funds still in banks! The 3 days to repair the Water purifying's THAT took 6 months. etc. etc.

As for dogs and the disgraceful harm Incest is, and has done over the years is deplorable. Likewise the ignorance in same ilk that is destroy the very important make up of our pigeons. Yes any blame laid at any other door is welcomed, lies and deceit or not!

Misty. Daz. I agree with you folks almost 100%. US and I assume Canada, the charities spend 3% or less on the recipients. I do not give to charities. I try to change what I can but usually it is futile. Worth the try though. Doom and gloom I have no time for. i drop dead tomorrow so be it. But I will not die pissed off at the world. Life is what one makes it. Within reason. So I will enjoy mine to the end.

Hal, I am certainly not peeved of with the world. It is what it is. I, we have to accept that … but sadly most won't, or don't.
On the other hand I certainly don't have time for those that paint the roses. the motto it will all get better. It won't, like a huge percentage admit to... but then try again to smarten up a blemished crusade, or try to gloss over.
We have to live and accept, and I for one have no problem accepting that!

Nothing is simple we live in a very complicated world, I thank God for having been born at a relatively good time and in a desirable place, and have no grumbles in that respect and thank God for every day, just a personal thing, and do my best to both enjoy it and help others to do the same, but that does not change the facts.

An example of ways are going, just had on the television a report that 0ne in four children in school have mental illness problems.

When I was at school it was the teachers who had the problems, little imps we were but mentaly healthy.

Today I also read that children in junior and infant schools were having to take part in Gay Pride Parades and when some parents objected were cried down on the basis of PC.

The minds of children are being used by the abnormals who have infiltrated evey aspect of life to attempt to indoctrinate their devious lives as normal by any means possible.

Self gratification being the name of the game.

Regards.

Folks. This is basically a pigeon info site. World views, politics, are diluting the purpose of the Forum.
Many very good points made and lively debate with the latter but there are other sites to argue these issues. I propose we refrain from posting such stuff.

Anyone who feels the present trends will not ultimately affect our sport and many other things are living in a dream world.

It will ultimately be impossible to keep any animal under any circumstances once another minority group take up animal welfare etc;.

The I'm Alright Jack attitude ????????.


Regards.

Maybe Hal. That post certainly carries a mite of truth, and realism.

I remember the great Camano site. Arguably the best ever, and certainly a favourite of many. There was a time when many said the same. Many had heated, indeed very heated debates. Name calling etc. But like the chicken scratching in the farm Yard. That in it drew many around … 'wrong reasons'? Well ...


You may recall we had then 'Any other Topics added... 'Jokes corner'. 'Anything unrelated to pigeons' etc. After many attempts we I got one called 'Roly's Ring'.
This was solely for those hot debates etc. If a theme / topic got heated one could say 'Into the Ring' where they could go and have it out. (Became very much used and watched. Also once invited a poster COULDN'T / WASN'T allowed to continue in that topic / debating. Trying to muster support for his views.
Yes very many went to watch, but it kept the main theme in tact and clean.
One errant was Lucas who basked in his own 'Lime Light'! Gather support via a few, not many. Got a little stick on another site, right or wrong, and disappeared.
Do we need as such here?!
This site is 'Esy' to the poster, not many daren't post for fear of a ridicule etc. Name calling. 'Asked to post just what they have done etc. and etc.