here is a question for you

Why dont the top fanciers in the uk get the acknowledgement for their birds like the continentals do as examples Van Lint sprint jos thone distance pigeons etc these families are nameed after the fancier , but here a top fanciers still use the name of the strain theyve brought in even though these may have been crossed many times to produce their own famlily of winning birds thus giving credit to the continentals helping them to sell pigeons , now we all know fanciers here in the uk who put up outstanding results right through the season year in year out, but they and their FAMILY of birds are not given the credit ???
Ken

marketing ken all down to spillage of the beans

A lot of UK fanciers like to feel they have something different, a continental flavour
To them it sounds better than having pigeons with a UK sound to them.

Sellers are quick to tap into this, will gladly offer " van this or van that "regardless of which loft they're bred in.
Been the same for as long as I remember. Doesn't look like changing.

Fair point Barnie these top fliers in the uk do have something different , different enough to beat the continenal equivalent so again why give their birds the credit and not their own blend of bird which are doing the business,
Ken

holland and belgium is flat land mainly so easier racing than on our island ...seldom do irish and british pigeons get the respect they deserve for their racing efforts

Fanciers should take the same attitude as Georges Busschaert, once a pigeon is in his loft it becomes a Georges Busschaert.

If you look at many clearance sales of past so called Champions a good majority of the pigeons involved had been bred by others.

Every fancier has to get stock from others to begin with.

If a fanciers puts two pigeons together in his/her loft they are THEIR BREED, the possibility of others getting exactly the same pigeons to start with is remote.

But as has been said it is easier to sell a name.

Had we ignored the continentals and their unhealthy pigeons we would have far better pigeons now.

Would like to know how many pigeons bred from a fanciers own local successful pigeons and then the fanciers pays a high price for a pair of Names and suddenly has a vast number off them.

Regards.

Question of different attitudes, words, how they are understood. English language for example.
Two old ladies talking. First one. "how nice to see you Ethel! Been a long time!"
Ethel "Yes it has."
"Did you come on the bus?"
Ethel "Yes I did. But I faked it as a heart attack.!"

barnie wrote:

A lot of UK fanciers like to feel they have something different, a continental flavour
To them it sounds better than having pigeons with a UK sound to them.

Sellers are quick to tap into this, will gladly offer " van this or van that "regardless of which loft they're bred in.
Been the same for as long as I remember. Doesn't look like changing.

for many years here Barnie we had closed borders with imports etc. Pigeons because of it were as tough as nails (fly through a brick wall) nearly. Imports come in from the early eighties & all then started going down hill in a big way on average from my perspective. Van this     Van that latest flavour of the month types become must haves for many flyers. Spin & bling with large paper pedigrees, replaced what was once hard working type pigeons for the average man. End of the day it is what it is now down here & even thou I wish we could close the borders to imports I doubt very much if it will ever happen I'm .

Thanks Gents all good honest answers its a shame really , as we have some top drawer fanciers with their own blended family of pigeons doing the job and not getting any credit for it
Ken

Knackered wrote:

barnie wrote:

A lot of UK fanciers like to feel they have something different, a continental flavour
To them it sounds better than having pigeons with a UK sound to them.

Sellers are quick to tap into this, will gladly offer " van this or van that "regardless of which loft they're bred in.
Been the same for as long as I remember. Doesn't look like changing.

for many years here Barnie we had closed borders with imports etc. Pigeons because of it were as tough as nails (fly through a brick wall)     nearly. Imports come in from the early eighties & all then started going down hill in a big way on average from my perspective. Van this     Van that latest flavour of the month types become must haves for many flyers. Spin & bling with large paper pedigrees, replaced what was once hard working type pigeons for the average man. End of the day it is what it is now down here & even thou I wish we could close the borders to imports I doubt very much if it will ever happen I'm .

Talked with a fancier in Townsville, earlt nineteen sixtiea. He worked on the docks there. He was bemoaning the fact they could not import birds.

barnie wrote:

A lot of UK fanciers like to feel they have something different, a continental flavour
To them it sounds better than having pigeons with a UK sound to them.

Sellers are quick to tap into this, will gladly offer " van this or van that "regardless of which loft they're bred in.
Been the same for as long as I remember. Doesn't look like changing.

How very true. Heard said many times, with a lot of truth I believe. They sale us the birds, we make them good.
Say the Netherlands have great 'Distance birds, for an example. Very few would fly here after a cold channel and over hill and dale. Antwerp for example have nigh all the pigeons head 8 foot high to the same location.

Now I can name a few here, that moved to the East cost, or east in fed. Know three that all kept moving further east and fell out with each other regularly. Know a well renowned fancier flying my mates bird - well didn't give my mate ant merit saying 'I wouldn't be able to sale mine then'! Yes admits that they are the best pigeons he has ever had. Yet he flies in a Valley. Has bought and moved his loft up to nearer the opening! says 'Any bird with mine will lose to me after the next bend'! How true.

I was elected as the YMRF correspondent many years ago.

I visited two lofts that were doing well at the time and took notes of their birds and
methods etc;

Not wanting to make any mistakes and a friend was also interested I said I would go and take him and confirm what I was going to include in the article.

In both instances some of the pigeons had gained a vastly different parentage and their methods changed drastically.

I never wrote the article or any other regarding any fancier.

Other than one for a local fancier who was doing very well and who I knew all his birds and methods personally but was not in favour of the scribe of the time and had no intention of giving him the attention he deserved.

I resigned as scribe.

Regards.

halcanada80 wrote:

Knackered wrote:

barnie wrote:

A lot of UK fanciers like to feel they have something different, a continental flavour
To them it sounds better than having pigeons with a UK sound to them.

Sellers are quick to tap into this, will gladly offer " van this or van that "regardless of which loft they're bred in.
Been the same for as long as I remember. Doesn't look like changing.

for many years here Barnie we had closed borders with imports etc. Pigeons because of it were as tough as nails (fly through a brick wall)     nearly. Imports come in from the early eighties & all then started going down hill in a big way on average from my perspective. Van this     Van that latest flavour of the month types become must haves for many flyers. Spin & bling with large paper pedigrees, replaced what was once hard working type pigeons for the average man. End of the day it is what it is now down here & even thou I wish we could close the borders to imports I doubt very much if it will ever happen I'm .

Talked with a fancier in Townsville, earlt nineteen sixtiea. He worked on the docks there. He was bemoaning the fact they could not import birds.

Don't wish to be cruel etc Hal but you are talking about a Queens lander type as such Coal country & us old Southerner types regard them all as some what strange with their normal nature . That being said thou     one of the best pigeon flyers I ever saw in my time was a Queenslander type called Knoblough, race the old Harrison type strain with great success over all distances.

Daz wrote:

barnie wrote:

A lot of UK fanciers like to feel they have something different, a continental flavour
To them it sounds better than having pigeons with a UK sound to them.

Sellers are quick to tap into this, will gladly offer " van this or van that "regardless of which loft they're bred in.
Been the same for as long as I remember. Doesn't look like changing.

How very true. Heard said many times, with a lot of truth I believe. They sale us the birds, we make them good.
Say the Netherlands have great 'Distance birds, for an example. Very few would fly here after a cold channel and over hill and dale. Antwerp for example have nigh all the pigeons head 8 foot high to the same location.

Now I can name a few here, that moved to the East cost, or east in fed. Know three that all kept moving further east and fell out with each other regularly. Know a well renowned fancier flying my mates bird - well didn't give my mate ant merit saying 'I wouldn't be able to sale mine then'! Yes admits that they are the best pigeons he has ever had.  Yet he flies in a Valley. Has bought and moved his loft up to nearer the opening! says 'Any bird with mine will lose to me after the next bend'! How true.

Cowboys live north here sprint freak types go south etc Daz some thing about the sea breeze down there (health benefits) for their family as such as living amongst the gum trees & native life I'm told is some what dangerous up north       .

You know why Misty? I was a writer of articles for the B.H.W. and also did some for Spinksy ( A great). Never took a bung. Never entered my head, and now, as then proud I never did.
However so many so called 'Scribes' did take back handers and youngster of the 'Names) and those that they did a write up on.

Indeed lol, was asked to tell a fancier - who wrote up articles on fanciers, which I did tell, and in front of the club members lol. I told 'Oh by the way *** **** and your write ups, Jim **** says you don't merit a pair of youngsters of his best. Indeed he says you are nothing but a charlatan and a no good, and he don't give bribes'.

If I put in the swear words and added them to the scribe it would have been 3 times as long lol.

""Some of the pigeon breeds of today were actually imported by people in the late 1880s. A good example of this would be Barkers; they were first imported between 1880-1887 by Mr S Hordern of Sydney. By 1896, pigeons were being imported from many world famous fanciers such as, Logan, Osman, Thoroughgood, Gits, grooter, and Janssens to name a few.""
aussie birds.

Van de peel's

some very good replies , to a very interesting topic ........enjoyed reading them .

Daz,

Steve, MiKe on his Hill and I corresponded on a regular basis, still have Steve's life story regarding his brother and family etc;

We formed a threesome, still have copy of article intimating same.

We attempted to sort the sport out, I by letters and the odd article and Steve articles in the BHW and the BHW Magazine the same for Mike.

Only met Steve once by arrangement in Blackpool.

Steve was the first to propose bringing schools into the sport but his untimely demise stalled the matter.

The sport would be in a far better place had they taken notice.

Regards.

halcanada80 wrote:

""Some of the pigeon breeds of today were actually imported by people in the late 1880s. A good example of this would be Barkers; they were first imported between 1880-1887 by Mr S Hordern of Sydney. By 1896, pigeons were being imported from many world famous fanciers such as, Logan, Osman, Thoroughgood, Gits, grooter, and Janssens to name a few.""
aussie birds.

A bit before my time Hal Do remember thou the first imports I had here were from a bloke called Lawrence   Componter/Deshutters (best I could do with the spelling) old Belgium type breeds which he imported in the 1910 era type period from England. Lovely pied types that I thought were all gold, but thats where it all finished I'm as they weren't worth a cracker on the race track etc. End of the story, didn't really matter all that much with me being young as such, as he took me back in time with his stories/tales of the early days here in a pigeon sense which I still treasure, even today .

peel bros wrote:

Van de peel's

Van Ducks down here Ray Have a local that races them here, couldn't/wouldn't ever beat me in a 100 years of flying against one another over a full season as such but he is a face book type champ that could talk a cat out of a tree with his spin & blokes just flock to him wanting his birds etc & paying silly type money . Not all bad thou & credit due where credit due as such, as he is an absolute terrific worker type all up for his club & federation & the sport in general here for which I still respect him for       .

Funny how breeds come and go, even today many present day families have a limited appeal, after a comparatively short time.

Some claim to have the old breeds but as all racing pigeons come from the Rock Dove they are all related if you go back far enough.

Hal mentioned some of the old breeds and I started up with young ones from a fancier friend of my father who bred Barkers and Logans for sale.

He had two old railway carriages and all the pigeons were on open hole with a few fantails etc; in attendance, anyone who won with them would say they were Barkers and Logans after considering the matter when I got older I thought they could be anything.

In reality you could, and some have, just get a mixture from every nook and cranny and you are as likely to breed good, bad and indifferent, just as all the studs and others do who pay high prices for names.

Regards.

Thanks Gents , i know of one partnership that say their birds are their own blend cultivated over many years they have cultivated a good all round family but they will tell you that the base of the family are staff van reets , i know this family win from 60 to 500 miles club classic specialist club national sections etc and myself would put these birds above anything comming in from the continent and would say you lads know some fanciers of the same calibre you may even be one yourself , but still prefer to say this id buick cuester what ever its just a shame we hype up mr continent and not mr uk
Ken

Likewise Misty. Forgot Gurney ... sorry regards Spelling. and a few others.

https://www.pigeoncenter.be/en/pigeons/strains

By gum Daz, brings back many memories seeing some of the old breeds.

I had Zion and Plentix (spelling dubious) at one time and Ameels.

The Zions had the best eye sign I have ever seen.

But in reality they are all just pigeons most of similar origin given different names.

Never worried about breeds myself, just obtained brothers of class performance birds, from different BREEDS and put them together with well bred hens, once I realised there was a lot of TOMMY ROT involved in the sport.

Worked for me.

Regards.