Genetics while breeding

Hi,
I have studied genetics a bit, real basic as a summary , in pigeons ,female is the one who decide offspring gender. So if male produced , 50% father(and grand parents) and 50% mother(grand parents) attributes included to him. if female produced 50% father(and grand parents) and W(sex chromosome) given to her. now in female case , it seems that we can judge by consider father pedigree. This may be reason that males are ever sold at higher price than females.

Science has explored color chromosome and we can judge color and patterns but performance genes like LDHA is still mystery.

I don't want to discuss color, as we know it is sex linked. But I want to understand importance of female (specially while considering performance) . To me what I have understood male takes important and major role on breeding. But I am confuse (after studying genetics) how much female can part in good smart off springs

Thanks

Me thinks you are making a mistake spending time attempting to understand genetics with regard to breeding winning pigeons.

The only way is to breed from performance pigeons or proven breeders and they come in all shapes sizes and colours.

Just look at the human race and where the best of all of everything comes from, no possible means of pre determination.

Just enjoy the sport.

Regards.

yes agree with you misty ,time would be better spent on studying another aspect of pigeons ...put best to best and hope for the best

MISTY wrote:

Me thinks you are making a mistake spending time attempting to understand genetics with regard to breeding winning pigeons.

The only way is to breed from performance pigeons or proven breeders and they come in all shapes sizes and colours.

Just look at the human race and where the best of all of everything comes from, no possible means of  pre determination.

Just enjoy the sport.

Regards.

Me thinks the same etc Never could quite get my head around the whole issue I'm unfortunately Same as eye sign as such to a degree. End of the day I just put it all down to me being rather dumb some what, sadly .

Mona Lisa died few days ago at 13 years old. A Mike Ganus pigeon that bred Combine winners etc etc for very many people. According to Mike one of a handful of superior breeders world wide past and present. I agree with him. Point is, who is smart emough to pick a superior breeder without testing them first? Not I!

tanveerhbaig wrote:

Hi,
I have studied genetics a bit, real basic as a summary , in pigeons ,female is the one who decide offspring gender. So if male produced , 50% father(and grand parents) and 50% mother(grand parents) attributes included to him. if female produced 50% father(and grand parents) and W(sex chromosome)  given to her. now in female case , it seems that we can judge by consider father pedigree. This may be reason that males are ever sold at higher price than females.

Science has explored color chromosome and we can judge color and patterns but performance genes like LDHA is still mystery.

I don't want to discuss color, as we know it is sex linked. But I want to understand importance of female (specially while considering performance) . To me what I have understood male takes important and major role on breeding. But I am confuse (after studying genetics) how much female can part in good smart off springs

Thanks

Best if confused etc Tanveer you maybe just throw it in the too hard basket & just concern yourself with much more important type issues. For me I'm happy to say its a 50/50 split & leave it at that come the end of the day thou I may be wrong as such . One thing I do know without the hen factor scenario, not much would find it's way into the race loft I suggest/suspect . Final word, one of the best flyers I've known & trained with together here, was into how race horses were bred at the highest level. Which in basic terms, suggests thou the female side has some importance its the stallion factor which plays a much more important part on average     maybe.     

Thank you all friends for valuable input. I do agree that race test is the only thing that can decide what we have breed and from whom just wanted to understand how other colleagues thinks

Good few years ago I was told old Louis Maserella was a master at producing breeders of winners using genetics, or similar scientific principals. This was from a top fancier, winner of 2 x 1st up north combine himself and also bred the sire of another 1st UNC.
I guess if you have a few thousand birds you are always going to breed something good along the way, but I do feel Louella produced more top producers back in the day.

Many a good loft owes a lot of success to Louella, that's for sure and a fact.
Our second (British) international winner was from Louella's. And his others. Indeed he, like many top fanciers, still buys in each year.
In the 'Fair auctions 'where and when the Buyer of the winning lot is told who bought it, Many times after the room, and phone bids have ceased it is announced 'Bought by Mark Gilbert'! True.
In fact at a moot I was involved with, he told the fanciers there that when he started up for himself, away from his dad, he said First thing was placing droppings in the new lofts, well before any birds. then I went to Louella and bought children, double grand children off... well, well known distance names, and bred from them. He won Pau with such a bird. And many others!

Barnie, genetics is really good topic to study.For colors yes one can get required results , but for performance it is complicated. LDHA is a gene associated to performance , but as per science one can't predict it. maybe in future science might able to crack it.
As it is true that both champions can't always produce champions. It is all about observation I think. For example when we breed , we try to observe physical traits among off springs. e.g. 3 out of 10 off springs has white line near eye and they performed great, that would be my guess So I might take only those off springs who has my guess

barnie wrote:

Good few years ago I was told old Louis Maserella was a master at producing breeders of winners using genetics, or similar scientific principals. This was from a top fancier, winner of 2 x 1st up north combine himself and also bred the sire of another 1st UNC.
I guess if you have a few thousand birds you are always going to breed something good along the way, but I do feel Louella produced more top producers back in the day.

For the ordinary fancier genetics is useless, you have to have an in depth knowlege of exactly what the gene represents, how to get the winning genes together and then they may be in a useless body.

Race horses are an example of restricted breeding based on winning genes, over many years.

Of the thousands bred based on the gene factor how many were champions?.

Many years ago I had a long chat with the late Mr Massarella, how the family started, allotments, ice cream etc;

Very revealing and in particular regarding pigeons and genes were never mentioned, performance was.

Too much amateur and totally irrelevant TOMMY ROT involved in our sport.

If there was any certain method it would knock all the pleasure out of the sport.

It is the uncertainty and anticipation that makes the sport what it is.

With all the nonsense spouted there is little wonder any prospective new comer is put off.

Of the many outstanding pigeons over the years there will be no pattern other than a cock and hen being involved and both from every kind of situation.

Yes too many COCK AND BULL stories in our sport instead of promoting it as a very interesting and rewarding sport if approached in the right manner.

Regards.

Believe China persuaded??? some of their top athletes to get together and breed hundreds of champions.

Full of WINNING GENES.

Result, still waiting for any that could fly a kite.

Regards.

Fly a kite eh lol … mind there are a few World class athletes... but none from that 'Full of WINNING GENES' pool lol.

MISTY wrote:

For the ordinary fancier genetics is useless, you have to have an in depth knowlege of exactly what the gene represents, how to get the winning genes together and then they may be in a useless body.

Race horses are an example of restricted breeding based on  winning genes, over many years.

Of the thousands bred based on the gene factor how many were champions?.

Many years ago I had a long chat with the late Mr Massarella, how the family started, allotments, ice cream etc;

Very revealing and in particular regarding pigeons and genes were never mentioned, performance was.

Too much amateur and totally irrelevant TOMMY ROT involved in our sport.

If there was any certain method it would knock all the pleasure out of the sport.  

It is the uncertainty and anticipation that makes the sport what it is.

With all the nonsense spouted there is little wonder any prospective new comer is put off.

Of the many outstanding pigeons over the years there will be no pattern other than a cock and hen being involved and both from every kind of situation.

Yes too many COCK AND BULL stories in our sport instead of promoting it as a very interesting and rewarding sport if approached in the right manner.

Regards.  

   

The horse racing industry is a rather fascinating industry from my perspective etc Misty . Talk about pigeon flyers being dreamer types the horse tragic mob take it to a much higher level for what I've seen/saw & followed type of thing down here .

Yes, cheats in Pigeons etc.
But 'Horses' legalise most of theirs's.
The money involved is colossal. Injections. Blood packing etc. If not 'Legal' then an appropriate blind eye is turned eh!

Daz wrote:

Yes, cheats in Pigeons etc.
But 'Horses' legalise most of theirs's.
The money involved is colossal. Injections. Blood packing  etc. If not 'Legal' then an appropriate blind eye is turned eh!

Must be fair here etc & say on average our horse racing industry down here is well run for the most part as such. Many high profile trainers have been banned (Weir/Moody) over time for doing the wrong type thing along with some top jockeys also . More banned on the horse racing side than has ever been banned on the pigeon side of things I suggest Daz . Which now brings me to what I call the on/off switch which many pigeon flyers have trouble finding sadly I've found. Have my favourite horse trainers here, one is a ex plumber walks around now in $1000 type suits with all the bling attached . Had a champion horse once called Apache Cat etc the other trainer, well wouldn't mention his name as he buys his suits at the local op shop I suspect but I admire him for how he treats his horses on race day here as he always parades around in the parade yard before the races with his horses to get a final feel of how they are feeling under the pressure of race day, instead of sitting up in the stand with all the money pretender types like the $1000 man. Then, we have my favourite jockey (1000 odd winners) as serious as one could be when legged up on a horse in racing mode, but when finished applying his trade he just switches the on/off button & enters another world of realism to take away the pressure of his job type of thing. Named Chris Symons & he has a farm of animals of all descriptions called The Funky Farm etc . Final word     has a pet crocodile there     now wearing 20 odd stitches thou in his arm     unfortunately, for looking the wrong way type of thing    .