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 Line breeding/Inbreeding ?

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David
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PostSubject: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:21 pm

might sound a silly question but whats the difference between line breeding and inbreeding............. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:38 pm

thanks george.........
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birdlady
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:37 pm

line breeding...and in breeding are the same thing...i prefare to just call it line breeding...used to do quite a bit of it myself with some of the exibition birds i bred...it can be useful...but if not done correctly,also has its down sides...infertility etc.
i know most people try to use the like of grandfather/granddaughter pairings and so on..but a guy i know,who knows quite alot on genetics and line breeding,told me once that the least closely related line breeding is actually brother/sister matings.
and when you think about it...g/father g/daughter pr ings...you are basicly using the same genes on one side of the family...but with brother/sister..you are actually using genes from both sides of the cock and hen.
not something you would do on a regular basis...i did do it once,and produced the best ever pr of young i ever bred.

found this on pigeon line breeding..

http://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com/2009/12/26/pigeonbreeding-correct-line-breeding-fixing-champion-blood/
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David
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:57 pm

hi birdlady, thanks for that info....this season i paired brother to sister, it wasnt a pairing which i planned but as they were both already paired up from being ybs and were both spare i just left them to it.............out of 4 ybs off of them only one is still in my loft, the other three were fly aways as ybs when settling them, so i dont know if this is because they were so closely bred or just because ybs do get lost like this while settling.

the bird i have left is typical of the breed but in my opinion doesnt have the same feather quality and feel of the parents, altho if i have no better mates for them i will leave them togeather and try race the offspring this time as this season i didnt get the chance.
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:07 pm

feather quality can be an issue with line breeding..i dont really know about feather types on pigeons, YET...lol
am hoping once i get a bit of spare time to start looking into pigeon genetics a bit more...find the genetics end of breeding very interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:35 am

my unlcle allways line bred and inbred and thats why the family is still close net after 59 years he had the pigoens now we are doing the same with our pigeons. taking a cross in and trying them out but allways cross back in to the richie/white stock.


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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:17 am

David wrote:
might sound a silly question but whats the difference between line breeding and inbreeding............. scratch

david try reading the jassen book i think that sums it up in great detail sorry i dont have the book now otherwise i would have sent you it they used to line breed but bring in a X which they state was very important
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David
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:11 pm

i george, i dont really base any pairings on how closely related they are, obviously i wouldnt purposely choose to put brother to sister etc but closely related birds like uncle/niece, auntie/nephew etc would be ok by me..........
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PostSubject: Difference between Line Breeding and In Breeding   Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:11 pm

The subtle difference between line breeding and in Breeding is that with line breeding you can develop your own strain of pigeons but with inbreeding you cannot as you will have many different strains in your loft even within the same family of birds.
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David
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:14 pm

hi kev, so if you wanted to breed along the lines of say, a cock who had won half a dozen 1sts, which way would you go about it.....?
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:25 pm

he sometimes comes on site late george, im sure he will explain when he reads your post......
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:36 pm

dont know george, i have an older cock (05) and every year his first round of eggs are clear, then all the rest are fertile..........ive been told that the younger cocks throw him off his hen so he isnt actually fertalising the eggs, once the young cocks are sitting he is able to tread his hen in peace and quiet.

any thoughts scratch
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spencerline
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PostSubject: line breeding   Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:50 pm

David wrote:
hi kev, so if you wanted to breed along the lines of say, a cock who had won half a dozen 1sts, which way would you go about it.....?

Well you get your champion cock bird and it is a bit easier as it is a cock, it is easier to breed to the male line as the male only passes on sex genes to his daughters whereas both the cock and hen pass on sex genes to their sons,

So first you need a hen of equal merit or more preferebly she has already bred winners with different mates in other words lays golden eggs. If you dont have such a hen see if one or more of your friends does and share the offspring with each other.

Lets say you managed to mate your stud sire to a top class producer hen and the eggs were floated under pumpers to get the maximum amount of ybs. Lets say you get 12 ybs, hopefully 3 hens 3 cocks each to share with the hens owner.

train the 3 cocks and your friend will do the same to make sure they work well, keep the hens at home to develop. Hopefully the cocks will work well , mate these ybs together. Next deason do the same again and mate your stud sire to a different top quality hen from another good loft with a proven producer hen and have the same arrangement splitting the young as before and when they are old enough mate these youngsters together too.

Train and Race the offspring The best hens from these are to be mated back to the Original stud sire and hopefully one hen will click and produce consistant winning progeny with your original stud sire.

By continually mating your Stud sire to very good producer hens you establish the princible of line breeding, all of the young will have the same Sire and all the young will be from producer hens who have already bred winners.

You are also able to see how the cocks from the different matings with the different producer hens work. The best of the sons of the Stud sire can also be mated in the stock loft if retired but that will be a different strain within a strain as the cocks take sex genes from both parents, the hens only from the sire.



Its bloody difficult to try to explain but I think That is it, lol

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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:01 pm

rainbow wrote:
i was hoping Gary was back on site so i could find out more about 1 cock bird paired to 4 hens = 28 YB could it also be said that line breeding and in breeding could be done at the same time and also has anyone ever tried this type of pairing as i had never heard of it before maybe he could tell us more about it

Do you mean bulling? this is where you get your stud sire to one side and lets say he is paired to his hen preferebly a common coloured blue hen, you have other blue hens you have put together with other mates at different times, this is the tricky bit , you gotta watch the pair like a hawk and when it gets near time for that cock in the other pair to tread his hen

you take her away and put her in a box with the bull cock she is a blue hen looking like his own mate and hopefully he treads her then you let her go back to her mate. Contary to popular belief a cock only has to tread his hen once to fertilize both eggs so she lays and the other cock brings up the young from the Bull.

Then repeat and repeat with all the hens you can the tricky bit is catching them just right before their own mate treads them and not all cocks will Bull thats why pairing the bull to a hen of a similar colour to the other hens is a good idea.

I have never done it but I am pretty sure thats the script. Kev
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steve b
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:04 pm

the bull system
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:05 pm

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/articles/NigelCowood.html
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:35 pm

running 1 cock to several hens,is common practice with canary breeders....
just means the hens just have to do abit of the feeding,instead of solely relying on the cock bird.

although it would appear that going on spencers discription of it,it is different in pigeons.
wow..ive alot to learn...lol


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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:36 pm

It's line breeding if you pair him with half sisters, or nieces or aunties, in breeding if you pair him with with daughters, grand daughters or even back to his mother.
But it is extremely hard work and must only be done if you've got the time to watch them as sometimes you get hens that are not interested and the cock can end up scalping them or exhausting himself driving an unwilling hen.
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PostSubject: Re: Line breeding/Inbreeding ?   Today at 10:51 pm

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