eye sign ?

is there any member that can explain the eye sign to me and possably put some pics up as im startin to get interested in this subject i got some new birds in this year and a fancier frm wales said if i were to put this bird to that bird then i should do well the the YBs from them

Rene there is a link at the top of the page, it will take you to Jack Barkels web site. I think hwe has his email addy on there aswell.

try asking rudderfet mate he knows his stuff about eye sign

some links hope theyre helpful rene

http://www.albertaclassic.net/eyes/hofmann.php


http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/articles/Rob_Woollis.html

http://www.tourdesmaritimes.com/Eyesign/Eyesign101/Breeder-eye.htm

http://www.tourdesmaritimes.com/Eyesign/Eyesign101/myron_kulik_intro.htm

http://www.tmakowecki.com/SCEYES.shtml

http://www.tmakowecki.com/STOCKBIRDS07/Cocks07

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel

Was talkin tae John the other day aboot eyesign, telt me e bred a youngster few years back wi the best eyesign e'd ever seen.

Fell doon a neighbours chimney

Hope this helps to make yer mind up

its not the eye matters its there wings and brain

ian wrote:

its not the eye matters its there wings and brain

pity i didnt know that when i met wife

I like eyesign but it is one of them subjects which there is so many avenues and everyone has there own idear

Rudderfet if you are an eyesign man can you post some thought on this subject as i would be every interested to see your comments mate

Well I can say I have always and will always use eyesign when breeding and I have bred some excellent birds on it to prove it. however and its a big However. there are problems with it.(in my opinion)
I was always interested in it from a kid and a fancier down our way who always judged eyesign in the shows and was well respected for it, taught me and showed an interest in my when I was 12, he is very old now and blind, but still a very dear friend.

This is the however...I have got tons of books on it and have read tons of articles, and I must say I disagree with mostly all of them , not that I am an expert, just I have kept records and always looked at birds eyes. In my opinion there is no way at all you can say a bird is a certain distance short middle or long by the eye. Nor even if its going to be a good racer, I have found birds with magnificent eyes win races and birds with no eye sign at al and in fact look like streeters and they also win. Thats my big problem with it, its not perfect for racing ability, but I have never seen a bird with amazing eyesign that has raced and not wonsomething.
Another however is breeding, I really think this is where it comes into its own, and the real eyesign man will find the good producer.

Another therory of mine is the ongoing developement of the eye it constantly changes, and its impossible again in my opinion to tell if youngsters have good eyes, and aga in even yearlings eyes change until they reach 2 years old then it stays constant and you can evaluate it better. not sure if this helps but its a life time study and not learned in 2 books and a crash course me thinks, you have to be talented, one man looks at an eye and sees nothing then another looks and sees much, thats how it is.

thanks for that it was very interesting but by the way youve explained it i think il go with my gut feelin on the 1s that i think will do the goods it seems a lot to take in and my brain aint that good at complicatedthing but again thanks for you opintion on the subject

hi rene, when i was younger i too was interested in eyesign and read every book i could about the subject......and i also had a bird which would win any and every eyesign show i entered him in. now i have come back into pigeons my views have changed and apart for someone like jack barkel and maybe one or two others who have studied their whole lives and actually researched theirs and others performances and failures cant really say that eyesign is much good.......all these so called experts who write in weeklys/monthlys all talk the same talk and all just seem to describe what they see and never comit themselves to say if a bird has won or will win, if they knew this for sure they wouldnt need a loft full of pigeons and just keep the breeders of winners.
all these eyesign men who "learn" from a book are just repeating it parrot fashion from the man who wrote it and most likely never won muchracing himself.....an old pigeon man once told me that when an eyesign man takes hes pool money every week instead of him, then he might start beleaving in it.............

dont get me wrong if some fanciers think eyesign works for them, all well and good......i do like to put opposite types togeathe for breeding but its not because i beleve in eyesign....its just a preferance and if i had to put same to same i would and sometimes do.....

p.s.....oh forgot to say, the bird i won all the eysign shows with was originally a stray !!!!

its very confusin like you said some do mimic wot others say its just that i was interested in it but i think im to old and thick to even learn it i have a pair that i was told that would do me proud still only time will tell

Rene eyesign is a facinating subject, there is another lad who comes on here and like Rudderfett is well into it, is name is lightning Mcqueen, as for me i like to see a strong bright and clear eyes in my birds, that dosent mean a lot i know, i know Mark would only be to happy to help if he can, but also like Amanda said check out Jack Barkel site, im sure he as a step by step guide on what to look for on his site
Ken

yeh cheers for that ken i was goin to av a look at that 1 later the 2 birds that this guy picked out to be paired up together im goin to see if wot e said is right no harm in tryin im always willin to listenin to avice and if it sounds good i will give it a go somethings might work and others wont but you dont no till you try

Spot on rene, im always writing things down i think will have some benefit to my birds, u can always pm mark but i defo would have a look at jacks site
Ken

Yes david is very right in what he says, I have my own little theories about eyesign which I apply rightly or wrongly to my own birds, we will see how my exchange birds do this year. But the man who I learned a lot from never flew a good pigeon, I cant even say he was too consistant either, I also believe if its something thats certain then winners would flow like water, but thats not the case, and most of these eyesign specialist cant do that.
I apply what I like and think is good look at the eyes for this but its just my personal opinion, and whos to say if I dont let the birds pair by themselves I might get the same results or better?? may be Ill try that next year...

Martyn have you not got any eye pics you could put on showing the differant type of eye for us to look at with a bit of information about each eye it may help rene and the the rest of us just a thought
Ken

I have thousands of eye pictures on the computer my mrs thinks I have an eye fetish, but as I said I only have my opinion about them and I wouldnt like to say anything for sure. You could put pictures of your birds eyes on and I will say what I think about them as a bit of fun. no fantails to catch me out

Martyn i cart take pics of the bird never mind its eye, Martyn as you say its ur interpetation of what you see, but it would also help us to see things if you get what i mean
Ken

im up to puttin some piks up for sure il try an put som on tomo like you said just for a bit of fun be nice for others to try and interperet the eyes lol

well one of my guides to eyes, very simple things I start with. Firstly I hate large pupils , year ago I had a stray in it was an Irish bird, it almost looked crosseyed and its pupil was tiny, and I do mean tiny half the size of any other bird I have ever seen. I paired it to another Irish stray and bred a youngster from it that won lots, and flew the whole youngbird programme never had a night out. It i turn had a smallish pupil and it bred a first fed winner. When I reported the Irish stray the man told me as a young bird the hen was never out of the clock although never won a first . Maybe coincidence but I have never seen another eye like that bird but Im looking.

Rudderfett thanks for the comments and yes i agree with what you say it is your own opinion and there are many things which different fanciers see compared to others

But must say it is a fasinating subject

martyn, does a pigeons pupil go bigger and littler like a humans depending on the light.....?

Yes it does