horses for courses

I have a question which I would like opinions on please, I have my opinion on this subject but over the weekend I have been discussing it with a club member who has other views.

We in south wales have been racing into this difficult area for years and people who visit me comment on how far down the line we live and the terrain here in Pembrokeshire.
Now its a fact that we have rugged coastlines with expanses of water twisting and turning everywhere, together with hills and mountains everywhere, with deep valleys for miles, whereas in HOLLAND for instance its totally flat for hundreds of miles.

Here is the question, If you buy pigeons from flat areas like Holland and then put them into our invironment where its more demanding and more difficult to navigate will they struggle, and I forgot to say it rains in Wales most of the time and almost every race will be a headwind as our winds comes mostly from the south west.

My mate was talking to a well known scribe who owns an auction site which sparked this debate, he thinks Im mad buying from Holland as I should go to a welsh fancier whos birds are used to the area.???

I personally believe this is total rubbish as scientifically there would be no basis for this to be true, If a bird has ability through genetics to be a good racer with good homing ability bred from winning lines, then this should be passed on regardless.

A youngster hatching from an egg has no awareness of where it is born which country or loft and is therefore able to adapt to its surroundings, otherwise and awareness before hatching would result in them homing to the loft they were conceived in which we all know is just as rubbish.

opinions please but think about it logically.?

Rudderfett wrote:

I have a question which I would like opinions on please, I have my opinion on this subject but over the weekend I have been discussing it with a club member who has other views.

We in south wales have been racing into this difficult area for years and people who visit me comment on how far down the line we live and the terrain here in Pembrokeshire.
Now its a fact that we have rugged coastlines with expanses of water twisting and turning everywhere, together with hills and mountains everywhere, with deep valleys for miles, whereas in HOLLAND for instance its totally flat for hundreds of miles.

Here is the question, If you buy pigeons from flat areas like Holland and then put them into our invironment where its more demanding and more difficult to navigate will they struggle, and I forgot to say it rains in Wales most of the time and almost every race will be a headwind as our winds comes mostly from the south west.

My mate was talking to a well known scribe who owns an auction site which sparked this debate, he thinks Im mad buying from Holland as I should go to a welsh fancier whos birds are used to the area.???

I personally believe this is total rubbish as scientifically there would be no basis for this to be true, If a bird has ability through genetics to be a good racer with good homing ability bred from winning lines, then this should be passed on regardless.

A youngster hatching from an egg has no awareness of where it is born which country or loft and is therefore able to adapt to its surroundings, otherwise and awareness before hatching would result in them homing to the loft they were conceived in which we all know is just as rubbish.

opinions please but think about it logically.?

I will think about it Rudd    It's well past my bed time here now   You will just have to wait     till tomorrow I'm afraid. Before I pass on my wee bit of wisdom ??????.

Acquire birds to a fancier who is consistently winning on the said place. That's my only opinion. Like here in our country, we have 2 Race Sectors. The North Race Sector which is lots of mountains and the other one is The South Race Sector which is the birds must cross the sea then followed by mountains. Some believed that they win in the north race but when they race to south sector, some are able to get back home but can't able to come home on time while others are gone because they are afraid of the sea.

we race a much tougher terrain than our European friends for sure and I think it is horses for courses but their is always the exception ...I had 18 dutch birds last season and they never once beat my own birds home the first 3 or 4 were always home bred birds....maybe with everyone scrambling for foreign imports and the latest craze from Belgium and Holland over the years is partly to blame for high yb loses ...before anyone says...I was asked by my good friend to try these birds out ....we had a bad yb race and I sent 12 dutch birds and 3 of my own I lost 10 of the dutchys and had all 3 home bred return ,I don't usualy lose many ybs I usualy have at least 60% left from what I have bred after racing
and like you martyn I usualy experience headwinds flying north road
I am not saying I am correct but you can only go on what you experience yourself and by the way these birds are scoring well into the north of Holland and their was 1 bird amongst them that was a good consistant performer I will say that so their is always the exception jmo

over the years since racing in to the west country the only pigeons whats keeps coming for me are what been bred of pigeon from this area .
when i first came down here from yorkshire i got some yb sent down to me from my good friend at the time there were one of the top lofts in yorkshire
all went down in the yb programe but the home bred mongrel strain keep coming , ive just got some new birds of a friend from around here all long distance stuff a mixture of denny emerton and dave hales of hockley so some thing to look forward to in future years for the long races .

I would also say that the bird must like ur management ways some will take to it some wont , it all depends what has been bred into their genes I have brought birds in from one loft and lost them ive also brought similar birds in from a different loft with a similar management system to my own and have flown well with them just my observation
Ken

Martyn as you no we are on an island here what I have found if you bring birds in it could be up to three years to get them to fly, sometimes your lucky and the odd one will do all right and like ken says they have got to get used to your management I have bought good birds in but its hard work for us with are own birds and the way things are going with returns Idont think it will get any better good luck with your new birds I hope for you down their with the hawk probs you are getting perhaps our friends wont like the taste of them

friendsloft wrote:

I would also say that the bird must like ur management ways some will take to it some wont , it all depends what has been bred into their genes I have brought birds in from one loft and lost them ive also brought similar birds in from a different loft with a similar management system to my own and have flown well with them just my observation
Ken

Ken !!!!!!   Rudd, has ask us all a rather difficult question in my view. No short answer could cover this topic etc here. The first thing which has to be taken in is the enjoyment factor in my view & that can have many facists to it, depending on what one likes etc or dislikes. Rudd    is a connoisseur of nice eye's (Eye sign) so I suspect that is why he may prefer birds from across the pond so to speak    in his endeavour to be successful, which is all fine as far as I'm concerned. But !!!!!!!! we all know the Rome saga    short way & the long way    & everyone in the end may all finish up there at the same time, with a bit of luck etc   type of thing. Rudd's way    is not my way & never has been etc. No matter where one may race, the best pigeons in that area are good pigeons & good luck to all those that leed the pack on race day type of thing "Credit where credit is due" Unfortunately thou, when many of these pigeons are taken out of there comfort zone, they become ordinary etc. especially when the wind is on the nose & you throw in a bit of distance to boot. So !!!!!!!! what does all that really mean at the end of the day   to me it means go local "Big time' & forget all that "Spin & bling" that is rammed down our throats etc that we all know exists & find those back yard pigeon flyers who are having success in your local area & make good friends with them   & if they just happen to like the odd drop     take a slab or two with you when you pay them a visit     if you are so fortunate .  
*****

Well Knackered that really is a good answer and a well thought out one at that, also a truthfull one.
Im not sure if I feel flattered by some of it or offended by some of it but that doesn't really matter what I think as Im after some answers from experienced fanciers and not pleasant chitchat.

I think If Im really honest I have to somewhat agree with you mostly, first of all there are fanciers here who can beat me and they have really good pigeons, one of my friends is the best in this area by far and wins nearly everything.
However I hate his values in pigeon racing and If I was like him I don't think I would like myself.
He has offered me pigeons and I must admit I have had the odd one or 2, and this year I did win with one.

This might be the admittance that you are there fore spot on with going local and that might turn out to be the case, But its not that easy for me.

To explain why is simple I am a stuborne bastxxd and would never be able to stand some one pointing out they were there birds that were wining for me, I would rather work it out for myself or forget it.

Also I like certain types of pigeon and have a very nostalgic gene in me which loves the romance of the older breeds, and If I accepted gift birds or bought local I couldn't control what I buy.
I haven't taken the easy way out in my opinion and tried to buy  success but rather for the first time in my life I am capable of buying more expensive pigeons, when I was young I had a crap loft and pigeons to match so when I restarted I chose the best all round.

My knowledge of the eyesign has helped me select the birds I feel capable of breeding winners and this has proved to be so, but its not my GOD, and if a bird with a poor eye breeds winners it stays no matter what I think.
Thanks for the reply it really is food for thought and welcome feedback.

reading your post rudderfett very intresting ive never been in a position to spend good money on a better class of bird , over the years ive swaped and been given birds most of them have put some good performances up in the club or national level but with having a young family ive not gone in to it 100% now my 2 boys are nearly 18 ive got the time but still no money what with uni fee,s and buying my son his first car . what im trying to say is would i spend the money on a better class of pigeon or would i stay as i am and work harder with what ive got , ive just been given some wonderfull long distance stock to try out no money changed hands all i have to do is get them to tarbess with the NFC and see what they do can,t wait to try them out over the channel . if you get the chance to try out other pigeons from your mates try them out cos most of the time there there best birds .

hi rudderfet  I live north of Aberdeen over the years I have had some of the best lines from the UNC  some have flown  ok  but they never go to the coast 460 to me I have ardens from Holland knock 150 ml off their distance  they will not do 700mls up here  many guys have had the best from wales padfields ect  guess what they cant get them at the distance  yes u have a hard area to fly into but the hardest is up here with out doubt very rarely do u see day birds from 600mls  2nd day national birds or as the dutch say EXTREEM DISTANCE   and by the way I have spent a fortune over the years buying birds but the best are always the gifts off friends money is no guarantee for success  cheers sean

Rudderfett wrote:

Well Knackered that really is a good answer and a well thought out one at that, also a truthfull one.
Im not sure if I feel flattered by some of it or offended by some of it but that doesn't really matter what I think as Im after some answers from experienced fanciers and not pleasant chitchat.

I think If Im really honest I have to somewhat agree with you mostly, first of all there are fanciers here who can beat me and they have really good pigeons, one of my friends is the best in this area by far and wins nearly everything.
However I hate his values in pigeon racing and If I was like him I don't think I would like myself.
He has offered me pigeons and I must admit I have had the odd one or 2, and this year I did win with one.

This might be the admittance that you are there fore spot on with going local and that might turn out to be the case, But its not that easy for me.

To explain why is simple I am a stuborne bastxxd and would never be able to stand some one pointing out they were there birds that were wining for me, I would rather work it out for myself or forget it.

Also I like certain types of pigeon and have a very nostalgic gene in me which loves the romance of the older breeds, and If I accepted gift birds or bought local I couldn't control what I buy.
I haven't taken the easy way out in my opinion and tried to buy  success but rather for the first time in my life I am capable of buying more expensive pigeons, when I was young I had a crap loft and pigeons to match so when I restarted I chose the best all round.

My knowledge of the eyesign has helped me select the birds I feel capable of breeding winners and this has proved to be so, but its not my GOD, and if a bird with a poor eye breeds winners it stays no matter what I think.
Thanks for the reply it really is food for thought and welcome feedback.

Rudd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Always remember here   no matter what I may say or not say type of thing ?????????. There is always a twinkle in my eye & a smile on my face etc    when I press that send button.  
*****

Sean and Kev I totally understand where your coming from and I agree with what you say, and looking after your kids is the best thing to do stuff the pigeons. Also with me the family always comes first and I drop my pigeons every season with the young birds to go away at weekends with my son and mrs, that way I am free to do what I like with the birds keeping them happy..lol

I cannot race more than about 5 yb races each year as I miss too many in between and the jump is then too far so I stop.
But at the same time I try my best with the birds and give 100% to them, I am fortunate that I work from home and have a bit of time to pop into the loft when I can during the day.

As for the pigeons mentioned in Wales those lads fly nearly 80 miles closer to the race point than we do, check out Milford haven in Pembrokeshire to see where we are in wales its tough.
But I been to Scotland a few times and its a hell of a place to visit never seen so many Mountains so I WILL GIVE YOU THAT ONE  
But Im thinking you defo don't have the peregrine troubles we do and that's a fact, I do think we have the highest population in the WORLD.

I do agree free birds and cheap ones sometimes make the best I have experienced this myself only this year and as for the thousands I have spent on pigeons trying to buy the best I will let you know this time next year If they end up in the bin. lol

Rudderfett wrote:

Sean and Kev I totally understand where your coming from and I agree with what you say, and looking after your kids is the best thing to do stuff the pigeons. Also with me the family always comes first and I drop my pigeons every season with the young birds to go away at weekends with my son and mrs, that way I am free to do what I like with the birds keeping them happy..lol

I cannot race more than about 5 yb races each year as I miss too many in between and the jump is then too far so I stop.
But at the same time I try my best with the birds and give 100% to them, I am fortunate that I work from home and have a bit of time to pop into the loft when I can during the day.

As for the pigeons mentioned in Wales those lads fly nearly 80 miles closer to the race point than we do, check out Milford haven in Pembrokeshire to see where we are in wales its tough.
But I been to Scotland a few times and its a hell of a place to visit never seen so many Mountains so I WILL GIVE YOU THAT ONE  
But Im thinking you defo don't have the peregrine troubles we do and that's a fact, I do think we have the highest population in the WORLD.

I do agree free birds and cheap ones sometimes make the best I have experienced this myself only this year and as for the thousands I have spent on pigeons trying to buy the best I will let you know this time next year If they end up in the bin. lol

percy is every where now and we have more than our share I lost 17 birds off the loft most that had been raced during the racing season we probably have more s/hks up here than any where and if u think percy is bad u should see the goss hks in action yes we got all 3 in abundance but that's life now we all just have to do our best cheers sean

seanl wrote:

Rudderfett wrote:

Sean and Kev I totally understand where your coming from and I agree with what you say, and looking after your kids is the best thing to do stuff the pigeons. Also with me the family always comes first and I drop my pigeons every season with the young birds to go away at weekends with my son and mrs, that way I am free to do what I like with the birds keeping them happy..lol

I cannot race more than about 5 yb races each year as I miss too many in between and the jump is then too far so I stop.
But at the same time I try my best with the birds and give 100% to them, I am fortunate that I work from home and have a bit of time to pop into the loft when I can during the day.

As for the pigeons mentioned in Wales those lads fly nearly 80 miles closer to the race point than we do, check out Milford haven in Pembrokeshire to see where we are in wales its tough.
But I been to Scotland a few times and its a hell of a place to visit never seen so many Mountains so I WILL GIVE YOU THAT ONE  
But Im thinking you defo don't have the peregrine troubles we do and that's a fact, I do think we have the highest population in the WORLD.

I do agree free birds and cheap ones sometimes make the best I have experienced this myself only this year and as for the thousands I have spent on pigeons trying to buy the best I will let you know this time next year If they end up in the bin. lol

percy is every where now  and we have more than our share I lost 17 birds off the loft most that had been raced during the racing season  we probably have more s/hks  up here than any where   and if u think percy is bad  u should see the goss hks in action yes we got all 3 in abundance  but that's life now we all just have to do our best  cheers sean

  and we have more than you alan. theres more hawks up here than there is humans.   

I but a few of the hawks up your way don't have wings    sean