training young birds

Hi all, I will be looking to take the young birds I have to the Young bird races which start in Hereford on the 19th July, so I have about 8 weeks to get the birds trained up. Just to ask which is the best way to start training I have been told to take them on short 5mile trips and then each trip go a few miles out building up to 30miles.
Is this right ?
How many times a week would I take them?
Any other tips would be great.  
Tony

in my opinion tony, ybs need to be off ranging and getting to know the area before they start training........

hi mate , only train them when they have been flying round the loft for a good few weeks and if they go away for a fly say a hour or so from the loft and you can,t see them don,t worry there just ranging . i my self start at about 9 miles and don,t go no futher then 15 miles as many chucks as you can get in to them every day 2-3 weeks before the first race will be fine get them to drink in the basket if you can and let them have some nights in the basket before hand to get them used to it and don,t feed them before you send them and get them straight in when they return .yb thrive on routine stick to it every day and don,t over feed them the worst thing you can do is give them a full crop every night you don,t want them sitting on the perches at night when its hot and sticky they will puke it up . good luck .

I don't want to put a spanner in the works, as most people on here talk a lot of sence and good advice is always given, I will give my opinion on yb training.

firstly MY BIRDS HAVENT RANGED FOR 3 YEARS NOW, Simple answer why.. I don't let them out much, I haven't got time to watch them fly because I have to kepp an eye out for all the exercise period because of the peregrines. My routeen is concentrate on the old birds first, then about now when we get the old bird races coming to an end, only then I start on the youngsters getting them to fly.

I have 5 weeks till the first race and I will start then on a flying routeen in about a weeks time twice a day morning and evening, as I don't have to watch the old birds anymore.

I then take them 1/2 mile 3 times so they get used to getting out of the basket and fly home, this way they are not far away and no disasters when they are a bit frightened of the basket and the car journey.

Then I go a mile or 2.. 3 or 4 or even 5 times constantly every day till they are going home within a couple of turns in the air. Once they go home quickly this way I stop and the next time they go in the basket will be 15  miles, I train them about 8 or 10 times up to 35 miles then first race 85 miles.

Every year I do this same routeen and it works well, they never range because they don't go out often enough so they mature and it stops them having the erge to range but it doesn't matter and only fly around the loft for half an hour before I start training.

hi martyn, because you don't exercise your ybs very often, do you have to force them up to fly when you start to get the ybs flying...?  and do you flag them ...?

ive always found that because my ybs are on the dark, they are reluctant to exercise around the loft.......one of the conclusions ive come to is that maybe if they are not up and flying before they go onto the dark, this somehow holds them down and makes them not want to exercise.........and then they get lazy, and think sitting on the loft is all that is required of them.

an alternative may be to breed a month or so earlier and get them up flying well, before they go onto the dark, which done this way might keep them exercising well........

out of three seasons ive tried darkness system there has only been one where they have ranged, this was my best yb season whereas the other two seasons when they didn't range they raced crap........maybe this is just coincidence im not sure

any thoughts ?

Tony P. That was a loaded question. Same as here, different localities need different approaches.
Only thing I know about Liverpool, that I remember, was Mables stable on the north Dock road. Pub. Anyway, if other fanciers in the city train a certain way and are successful then do as they do. Shorter distances to start in a city environment may be the way to go. I do not know. If you are in a high raptor area then too many short tosses may not be the best way to go. Too much exposure of the birds to hawks. However if your birds are ranging freely, then start them longer. Free ranging young birds will have a radius memory of 15 miles. So start at 10 or 12. Once twice or whatever. They come on time double the distance. How many times a week? That is up to you alone. The birds come good then train them until they start to falter. They will tell you. they do not look 100% give them time off. One of the best young bird fliers in recent years was Pete Sloane. From Liverpool. Used to play soccer over there. His regime was same as he did for soccer. Train train train. He had them on the dark system. Never tried the dark system myself. I am in open country. So for me 12 miles first toss. Second toss also then just double it until 40 miles is reached. They come from 40 they can come from any distance usually. One or two times a week 30 miles. Really does not matter as I have basically an open loft. Different situations call for different methods. There is no fool proof way.

Good morning all, thanks for your replies so far, the young birds that have been given to me I have had them out in the flight to get use to the area, then I let them out with some of the old birds at first the never went out, until a day or 2 then on to the roof, after a week of this they and as from this week they are now flying round the area of the loft within sight. so I think from next week I will take them for a toss from 1 mile away.
Would I put a couple of the old birds in with them to show the young birds how its done????
Thanks again for all your tips it just shows that there are many ways to work the birds to try and get the best out of them its good to see how you all start with the young birds.    
Tony

hi tony i wouldnt start training yet they havent started ranging yet train too early and you may regret the decision but there your birds cheers terryp..

Alrite Terry, when you say not to start training yet do yo mean taken them for a toss?
If so why mate ? whats the reason for not starting trainging now ?
Cheers,
Tony

David I use a flag and balloons filled with the light gas any thing to keep them up at least 45 min morning and night an hour most say but I have won with only half hour flying twice a day, unlike the old birds who would land on the balloons if I let them the youngsters get spooked by them and they tend to bugger off until they are gone.

But again unlike the lazy old birds youngsters once they get a routeen fly very well almost without the flags but you have to make sure they get the message early doors that when they go out its fly time.

Hi Martyn thats a good tip with the flags to keep the young birds up training for a bit longer  

Just another quick point that will change your season, I think almost everyone feeds pigeons too much including me and I have to restrain and remind myself just how greedy they can be, I have started really keeping the yougsters hungry, it doesn't mean they don't get much food because they get plenty, you have to get a balance between enough to be healthy and not starving them which has its problems too.

I would say feed sparingly I never weigh food just do it by trial and error you must get a feel for it, but fat birds never win races they are athiletes and need the right food at the right time, you be surprised how fat fanciers birds can be without them knowing it.

If my youngsters don't dive on the food and eat like its out of fashion I quicky go in the section and take it away until the next feed, I do think a lot of problems with yb sickness comes down to poor management and feeding routeen together with birds stuffed to the hilt, don't think usain bolt eats a sunday dinner with all the trimmings followed by pudding?

(Roast dinner) No thats me given half a chance mate  
I have been told about feeding like what you are saying and it is finding the right amount of food which is sometimes a problem to get the right balance mate  

hi tony, my guide to yb feeding is 1 ounce per bird until they start to so some work, ie ranging/training/racing etc........then it will be up to 1 and 1/4 oz per bird.

some feed until roughly 1/3 of them take a drink of water, then remove all corn whats left over.....or others might have a different method which they prefer.

maybe more members will post up what they do.....

Hi David, is that 1oz of food per day or do you feed them 2 times a day whats the reason behind taken the food off them when they start to drink ?  

hi tony, yes the 1 oz is per day......until they start training I only exercise and feed once per day, other people may do things differently tho`.

the reason behind removing left over food is because its a good guide as to when the pigeon has eaten enough corn, and not to let them gorge on it so they wont trap the day after etc...........

ok David thanks for that mate  

Tony your the boss not the pigeons, plus the reason for removing the food pigeons will eat like pigs if you let them but you will get a few birds once they have had there few will go to the water fountain once the first two birds go for water that's the time to remove the food plus it also stops any mice from feeding on any left over food

The only time pigeons are your boss is when they are breeding with food always available then you have to turn a blind eye mate

Going back to youngsters if your birds don't come into the loft when called don't be afraid to miss the birds feed if they don't tow the line the ones that miss there feed will the first ones in the loft the next time you call them

some good advice their tony from some of the lads but of course an added note is what to feed ....don't use to heavy a mix maybe mix two types ie diet and a yb mix or add a percentage of barley to a mix if its to heavy ...I like to use the versa laga mixes and use junior plus as its a good balanced mix without messing about with it

Totally agree with oldstrain on the feeding I have a diet mix and a best all round mixed together for different times, and of course don't forget the barley excellent feed for youngsters and keeps them fling. A1 advice.

oldstrain wrote:

some good advice their tony from some of the lads but of course an added note is what to feed ....don't use to heavy a mix maybe mix two types ie diet and a yb mix or add a percentage of barley to a mix if its to heavy ...I like to use the versa laga mixes and use junior plus as its a good balanced mix without messing about with it

Will second that

Rudderfett wrote:

Totally agree with oldstrain on the feeding I have a diet mix and a best all round mixed together for different times, and of course don't forget the barley excellent feed for youngsters and keeps them fling. A1 advice.

Will second that

Rudderfett wrote:

Just another quick point that will change your season, I think almost everyone feeds pigeons too much including me and I have to restrain and remind myself just how greedy they can be, I have started really keeping the yougsters hungry, it doesn't mean they don't get much food because they get plenty, you have to get a balance between enough to be healthy and not starving them which has its problems too.

I would say feed sparingly I never weigh food just do it by trial and error you must get a feel for it, but fat birds never win races they are athiletes and need the right food at the right time, you be surprised how fat fanciers birds can be without them knowing it.

If my youngsters don't dive on the food and eat like its out of fashion I quicky go in the section and take it away until the next feed, I do think a lot of problems with yb sickness comes down to poor management and feeding routeen together with birds stuffed to the hilt, don't think usain bolt eats a sunday dinner with all the trimmings followed by pudding?

Spot on Rudd    "Fat pigeons don't win races" If all newcomers here, learnt the differance between a cricket ball compared to a tennis ball etc & then the art of feeding barley    the road to glory would be a damm sight easier road I suspect for them  all, with a bit of luck.  

Good morning all, thanks for the help and tips again with this, plenty of good advice given again which I will use with my birds. At the moment I am prob over feeding them a bit only because of the young birds in the nests so I leave the food for the hens to feed the young. Probnot the best thing to do but I wonted the youngs to have the best start.  
I will look to change my feeding and the food I give them and be a bit more hard with the feeding time and take the advice on the birds drinking the water and remove the food.
Thanks again for all the advice its good to hear how you all work in your lofts with feeding and what you feed and how you control it all.
      
Tony

morning tony, when ybs are in the nest they need as much food as they want, always make sure the parents have plenty of food either by hopper feeding, or by feeding maybe 3 times a day at intervals........they also need plenty of food when they are first weaned to make sure they don't go backwards, and also make sure they are drinking by dipping their beaks in the water, the last thing you need after all the work involved rearing them is for them to go backwards and get sick.

the controlling of the food comes into play when the ybs are going out of the loft, the only way you can control them is through food at this early age......