Therapeutic Herbs for Racing Pigeons

Has anyone had experience of using Herbs for their Medicinal properties for Racing Pigeons?  And in particular "Gary Spavins Herbs and Tinctures "?

I think that the future for our sport of racing pigeons is on a Downward slope if we keep using "So Called" Probiotics and blind use of Antibiotics month in and month out! As opposed to trying to find more natural remedies.

Does the ordinary person in the street and therefore in our lofts - know that:-
1.  these so-called Probiotics are Species Specific and nothing from a Cow can be any good for our pigeons
2. A REAL pro-biotic is a Living thing and therefore has a VERY short shelf life (maybe as short as one day!)

This what I found about Probiotics:-
Probiotics are live bacteria and yeasts that are good for your health, especially your digestive system. We usually think of bacteria as something that causes diseases. But your body is full of bacteria, both good and bad. Probiotics are sometimes called "good" or "helpful" bacteria because they can help keep your gut healthy.

But do they really do what they are supposed to do?  I think NOT.

For example - the other day I was speaking to another fancier, and he told me that he puts Yakult into his birds' drinking water. He was convinced that it was doing his birds good.

But it CANNOT be doing his birds any good, for both of the reasons I have mentioned above.  I am sure there are hundreds of people who take Yakult and other products like it, every day, thinking they are doing themselves some good.  
I believe it is 'All in the Mind'.

What makes people (who on the outside seem very intelligent) want to pay tens of thousands of pounds/dollars/euros every year on this stuff?  I don't know or understand why.  "Hype" maybe!

Herbs - on the other hand are not made in a laboratory and by their very nature are natural.  And given at the right doses at the right time, can only do GOOD.

Don't get me wrong - I am not against pharmaceutical drugs, used in their right place - nor do I dislike any company trying to make a buck!  I just worry about where the use of antibiotics and the willy-nilly use of some of the stuff on the market for our pigeons, is leading us. Furthermore, what makes people who race pigeons think that products designed for humans are beneficial for birds? I know there are a few products that man has designed for himself that we regularly give to our birds, such as cider vinegar and garlic but both of those are 'natural' products.

I was once told by a very experienced pigeon fancier that -  if a person that was Winning everything there was to win, was asked "What made him so successful - and he said " I stick a plastic dog turd in the corner of my loft" - Many people would go out and buy plastic dog poo!

We now have so-called 5 in 1 cures - how can one tablet cure five different ailments whether Real ofr Imagined.

Bring back NATURAL remedies like the use of Herbs for Our birds.

I am sure this will throw up some very interesting replies - I look forward to reading them.

Your friend in Sport
Phil (blueskylofts)

theirs been a few companies in the past doing a range of herbal products and none seem to last as they are just too expensive for most to follow their programme I have tried them and they were good but too expensive for the whole range ...I find fennel tea bags and oregano very good and stick to these two myself

blueskylofts wrote:

Has anyone had experience of using Herbs for their Medicinal properties for Racing Pigeons?  And in particular "Gary Spavins Herbs and Tinctures "?

I think that the future for our sport of racing pigeons is on a Downward slope if we keep using "So Called" Probiotics and blind use of Antibiotics month in and month out!  As opposed to trying to find more natural remedies.

Does the ordinary person in the street and therefore in our lofts - know that:-
1.  these so-called Probiotics are Species Specific and nothing from a Cow can be any good for our pigeons
2. A REAL pro-biotic is a Living thing and therefore has a VERY short shelf life (maybe as short as one day!)

This what I found about Probiotics:-
Probiotics are live bacteria and yeasts that are good for your health, especially your digestive system. We usually think of bacteria as something that causes diseases. But your body is full of bacteria, both good and bad. Probiotics are sometimes called "good" or "helpful" bacteria because they can help keep your gut healthy.

But do they really do what they are supposed to do?  I think NOT.

For example - the other day I was speaking to another fancier, and he told me that he puts Yakult into his birds' drinking water. He was convinced that it was doing his birds good.

But it CANNOT be doing his birds any good, for both of the reasons I have mentioned above.  I am sure there are hundreds of people who take Yakult and other products like it, every day, thinking they are doing themselves some good.  
I believe it is 'All in the Mind'.

What makes people (who on the outside seem very intelligent) want to pay tens of thousands of pounds/dollars/euros every year on this stuff?  I don't know or understand why.  "Hype" maybe!

Herbs - on the other hand are not made in a laboratory and by their very nature are natural.  And given at the right doses at the right time, can only do GOOD.

Don't get me wrong - I am not against pharmaceutical drugs, used in their right place - nor do I dislike any company trying to make a buck!  I just worry about where the use of antibiotics and the willy-nilly use of some of the stuff on the market for our pigeons, is leading us.  Furthermore, what makes people who race pigeons think that products designed for humans are beneficial for birds?  I know there are a few products that man has designed for himself that we regularly give to our birds, such as cider vinegar and garlic but both of those are 'natural' products.

I was once told by a very experienced pigeon fancier that -  if a person that was Winning everything there was to win, was asked "What made him so successful - and he said " I stick a plastic dog turd in the corner of my loft" - Many people would go out and buy plastic dog poo!

We now have so-called 5 in 1 cures - how can one tablet cure five different ailments whether Real ofr Imagined.

Bring back NATURAL remedies like the use of Herbs for Our birds.

I am sure this will throw up some very interesting replies - I look forward to reading them.

Your friend in Sport
Phil (blueskylofts)

Dr Phil You may have opened a can of worms here in relation to the use of herbs etc I believe. I suspect few fully understand the knowledge factor into what may or may not be the correct dose if there is such a thing for pigeons. The knowledge factor etc can take years to fully understand even a small proportion of the many herbs out there which may have same value from my perspective. Hard to believe but I know nothing of what their is out there, if you get my drift . But then I suspect I may know more than many that just look at a packet of herbs in a supermarket & think it may have some value as such. For me the knowledge factor with herbs includes my life stile along with my birds & when I see flyers spending more on medication to race their birds than what they spent sending them to a race I just & smile to my self as they are just I believe only taking the easy way out of finding a solution to their problems & I find that senaro a real killer for our sport in the long run sadly, especially for any new comer to our sport. Enough said half time at the football here priorities but that's just my bit for the night etc & I just hope this topic can find some knowledge here for those that believe they may know nothing     or believe they may have some knowledge to pass on to the un-educated in this field here.

Knackered wrote:

blueskylofts wrote:

Has anyone had experience of using Herbs for their Medicinal properties for Racing Pigeons?  And in particular "Gary Spavins Herbs and Tinctures "?

I think that the future for our sport of racing pigeons is on a Downward slope if we keep using "So Called" Probiotics and blind use of Antibiotics month in and month out!  As opposed to trying to find more natural remedies.

Does the ordinary person in the street and therefore in our lofts - know that:-
1.  these so-called Probiotics are Species Specific and nothing from a Cow can be any good for our pigeons
2. A REAL pro-biotic is a Living thing and therefore has a VERY short shelf life (maybe as short as one day!)

This what I found about Probiotics:-
Probiotics are live bacteria and yeasts that are good for your health, especially your digestive system. We usually think of bacteria as something that causes diseases. But your body is full of bacteria, both good and bad. Probiotics are sometimes called "good" or "helpful" bacteria because they can help keep your gut healthy.

But do they really do what they are supposed to do?  I think NOT.

For example - the other day I was speaking to another fancier, and he told me that he puts Yakult into his birds' drinking water. He was convinced that it was doing his birds good.

But it CANNOT be doing his birds any good, for both of the reasons I have mentioned above.  I am sure there are hundreds of people who take Yakult and other products like it, every day, thinking they are doing themselves some good.  
I believe it is 'All in the Mind'.

What makes people (who on the outside seem very intelligent) want to pay tens of thousands of pounds/dollars/euros every year on this stuff?  I don't know or understand why.  "Hype" maybe!

Herbs - on the other hand are not made in a laboratory and by their very nature are natural.  And given at the right doses at the right time, can only do GOOD.

Don't get me wrong - I am not against pharmaceutical drugs, used in their right place - nor do I dislike any company trying to make a buck!  I just worry about where the use of antibiotics and the willy-nilly use of some of the stuff on the market for our pigeons, is leading us.  Furthermore, what makes people who race pigeons think that products designed for humans are beneficial for birds?  I know there are a few products that man has designed for himself that we regularly give to our birds, such as cider vinegar and garlic but both of those are 'natural' products.

I was once told by a very experienced pigeon fancier that -  if a person that was Winning everything there was to win, was asked "What made him so successful - and he said " I stick a plastic dog turd in the corner of my loft" - Many people would go out and buy plastic dog poo!

We now have so-called 5 in 1 cures - how can one tablet cure five different ailments whether Real ofr Imagined.

Bring back NATURAL remedies like the use of Herbs for Our birds.

I am sure this will throw up some very interesting replies - I look forward to reading them.

Your friend in Sport
Phil (blueskylofts)

Dr Phil You may have opened a can of worms here in relation to the use of herbs etc I believe. I suspect few fully understand the knowledge factor into what may or may not be the correct dose if there is such a thing for pigeons. The knowledge factor etc can take years to fully understand even a small proportion of the many herbs out there which may have same value from my perspective. Hard to believe but I know nothing of what their is out there, if you get my drift . But then I suspect I may know more than many that just look at a packet of herbs in a supermarket & think it may have some value as such. For me the knowledge factor with herbs includes my life stile along with my birds & when I see flyers spending more on medication to race their birds than what they spent sending them to a race I just & smile to my self as they are just I believe only taking the easy way out of finding a solution to their problems & I find that senaro a real killer for our sport in the long run sadly, especially for any new comer to our sport. Enough said half time at the football here priorities but that's just my bit for the night etc & I just hope this topic can find some knowledge here for those that believe they may know nothing     or believe they may have some knowledge to pass on to the un-educated in this field here.

Opening Cans of Worms - That really was part of the idea - to get people that keep and race pigeons to THINK - think about what they are giving to their beloved birds and think about alternative ways of looking after the birds needs.

Phil

Birds are adaptable. They can race in spite of what is given to them. Open loft for me, they get what they need without direction from me.

halcanada wrote:

Birds are adaptable. They can race in spite of what is given to them. Open loft for me, they get what they need without direction from me.

How many races do you win?

From 120 to 586. Sometimes only day bird. Flying to the nest with old birds. 10 years ago took dozens of trophies to the dump when I quit for a few years. On a scale of one to ten as a racer, would be a 5.

halcanada wrote:

From 120 to 586. Sometimes only day bird. Flying to the nest with old birds. 10 years ago took dozens of trophies to the dump when I quit for a few years. On a scale of one to ten as a racer, would be a 5.

Very well done!

well done hal, good flying...I'd be happy to get one trophy........

Just to be clear. Not boasting, just pointing out there are many ways to do it. Nothing is written in stone. 2nd place in 1956, was 16, with a young bird fed solely on rice and wheat. West Hartlepool club, race from Selby. Merchant Navy for a lot of years, pigeons again here in Canada. Here I have managed hog farms with up to 1,000 sows. Each sow averaged 2.4 litters a year at 10.3 pigs weaned per sow. So, access to all sorts of meds, antibiotics etc,. Believe you me tried them all on occasion. Results were just average. Cortisones did work somewhat but hard on the bird. Races I do well in here (apart from a few fast ones) average 1050 mpm. So not fast birds at all. Steady. Pluggers? Club is 45 miles east of me. We fly from the east. So birds have almost another hour from the next club member. As most club and Fed members are Belgium, Dutch and German they are hard to beat. I am not complaining. I am happy with the situation. I do not look for miracles. I cannot win them all. Not many people can. I am just not that dedicated. Age thingy! But enjoy the birds. That is all keeps me in it.

interesting post hal, thanks for that.....enjoying them is the main thing when it comes down to it.

our club only has a 1 mile radius, so you being 1 hour away from other members is something different, plus competing against Belgium, dutch and germans is very interesting.

halcanada wrote:

Just to be clear. Not boasting, just pointing out there are many ways to do it. Nothing is written in stone. 2nd place in 1956, was 16, with a young bird fed solely on rice and wheat. West Hartlepool club, race from Selby. Merchant Navy for a lot of years, pigeons again here in Canada. Here I have managed hog farms with up to 1,000 sows. Each sow averaged 2.4 litters a year at 10.3 pigs weaned per sow. So, access to all sorts of meds, antibiotics etc,. Believe you me tried them all on occasion. Results were just average. Cortisones did work somewhat but hard on the bird. Races I do well in here (apart from a few fast ones) average 1050 mpm. So not fast birds at all. Steady. Pluggers? Club is 45 miles east of me. We fly from the east. So birds have almost another hour from the next club member. As most club and Fed members are Belgium, Dutch and German they are hard to beat. I am not complaining. I am happy with the situation. I do not look for miracles. I cannot win them all. Not many people can. I am just not that dedicated. Age thingy! But enjoy the birds. That is all keeps me in it.

1 mile radius. I imagine there is a reason, etc, etc. But in all fairness basically it is the best pigeon on the day. On a long tough one location just does not matter that much. On a short fast one then it is a key factor. Perhaps vitamins and supplements can ( I assume do) work very well for some fanciers. Depends on one wants to accomplish. If a person convinces himself stuff works then more power to them.Why change? Usually only when one is at the bottom of the sheet every week new methods/drugs/ etc are implemented. My humble opinion, get better birds. Alternative cull the ones that do not perform to expectations and breed off the best.If affordable, buy one or two in.

halcanada wrote:

From 120 to 586. Sometimes only day bird. Flying to the nest with old birds. 10 years ago took dozens of trophies to the dump when I quit for a few years. On a scale of one to ten as a racer, would be a 5.

I called them dust collectors here etc Hal     & most of mine finished up in the same place as yours. My club here at the time then gave the flyers who won a race type of thing the money that the trophy cost, to be then spent on some thing of use/value for the home or the loft & it then was presented back to them at the presention day/night etc & on average most were much happier that way I found.

blueskylofts wrote:

halcanada wrote:

Birds are adaptable. They can race in spite of what is given to them. Open loft for me, they get what they need without direction from me.

How many races do you win?

No disrespect to you Phil but that type of leading question above etc just makes my blood boil sadly, when I see it on a forum such as ours. If only winners were the ones that could speak these type of forums would be very lonely places I suspect. Now !!!       I was going to talk about my favourite weed here         but time has caught up with me sadly    .  

Knackered wrote:

blueskylofts wrote:

halcanada wrote:

Birds are adaptable. They can race in spite of what is given to them. Open loft for me, they get what they need without direction from me.

How many races do you win?

No disrespect to you Phil but that type of leading question above etc just makes my blood boil sadly, when I see it on a forum such as ours. If only winners were the ones that could speak these type of forums would be very lonely places I suspect. Now !!!       I was going to talk about my favourite weed here         but time has caught up with me sadly    .  

Sorry if I have offend you Knackered - What 'type of leading question' are you talking about?
Phil

halcanada wrote:

1 mile radius. I imagine there is a reason, etc, etc. But in all fairness basically it is the best pigeon on the day. On a long tough one location just does not matter that much. On a short fast one then it is a key factor. Perhaps vitamins and supplements can ( I assume do) work very well for some fanciers. Depends on one wants to accomplish. If a person convinces himself stuff works then more power to them.Why change? Usually only when one is at the bottom of the sheet every week new methods/drugs/ etc are implemented. My humble opinion, get better birds. Alternative cull the ones that do not perform to expectations and breed off the best.If affordable, buy one or two in.

hal, I think part of the reason for the 1 mile radius is because some of the members are afraid of competition......

oldstrain wrote:

theirs been a few companies in the past doing a range of herbal products and none seem to last as they are just too expensive for most to follow their programme I have tried them and they were good but too expensive for the whole range ...I find fennel tea bags and oregano very good and stick to these two myself

I guess if you are dealing with a very large company for your Medicinal Herbs - the prices are going to be high.

But in Gary Spavin's case, I think his prices are Very reasonable!

For example - his Teas are £7.00 per bag. In One bag there is enough to make Fifteen Gallons of liquid. Or less than 12 pence for a 2 pint drinker.

To me that is GOOD value. What do you think?

His Tinctures are around the same value as well.

I have only just started using Gary's system - so it is early days yet. But I will let you all know how things go on. The problem is with this kind of thing, how does one know how things would have been if one did not use a certain product.

Food for thought, me thinks.

Atb
Phil (blueskylofts)

I tried the Hilton herbs programme phil and to me it was a lot of messing about at great expense different tinctures for different days and birds are just as healthy on ropa and fennel tea and a lot less expense as I said I have droppings tests done twice per year and the results are very good when I used Hilton herbs I never had tests done so could not say if they were as good as the product I use now all I know is that I have saved money to spend on the little one thing I am going to trial this year and its cheap as chips is ground licorice root atb

halcanada wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/science/chicken-farms-try-oregano-as-antibiotic-substitute.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1

good read hal but like o/s i prefer ropa

halcanada wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/science/chicken-farms-try-oregano-as-antibiotic-substitute.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1

great article hal ...I think ropa have a branch in the states now or at least a few agents
...shippy ropapharm and ropadair and ropa b are all the same company m8

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-26/pigeon-flocks-lead-with-speed/6973036
Leaders...

oldstrain wrote:

halcanada wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/science/chicken-farms-try-oregano-as-antibiotic-substitute.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1

great article hal ...I think ropa have a branch in the states now or at least a few agents
...shippy ropapharm and ropadair and ropa b are all the same company m8

cheers

blueskylofts wrote:

Knackered wrote:

blueskylofts wrote:

halcanada wrote:

Birds are adaptable. They can race in spite of what is given to them. Open loft for me, they get what they need without direction from me.

How many races do you win?

No disrespect to you Phil but that type of leading question above etc just makes my blood boil sadly, when I see it on a forum such as ours. If only winners were the ones that could speak these type of forums would be very lonely places I suspect. Now !!!       I was going to talk about my favourite weed here         but time has caught up with me sadly    .  

Sorry if I have offend you Knackered - What 'type of leading question' are you talking about?
Phil

That's OK Phil I have a thick hide etc to a point .
Now  how many races do you win, is the subject under discussion & I don't give a rats a**e how many races or how few a man may have won here. I'm more concerned about his input into keeping this site moving foreward.