Garlic....

anyone use garlic in the pigeons drinking water, cloves, oil etc......? if so why do you use it, what does it do for the pigeons, how long do you leave it in 24/7, a few times a week...? do you give fresh water daily with the same clove or do you top up daily...?

does anyone think garlic makes their birds healthier, or do they think it keeps illness down...?

i use it during the moult david in oil form every other day and dry off with cinnamon powder and also use it for 2 days after race return

right Darren, ive been reading on the internet and one bloke uses cloves for one day a week, and another uses it for 2 weeks in the water, then 2 weeks fresh plain water.......

do you think you can over do using it, or does it just depend on the fancier...?

I cut or smash 4 or 5 garlic cloves and put them into a 1.5 litre bottle, then cut a lemon into slices then slice again to make small strips and put them in the same bottle.

Then fill the bottle up with tap water and put the top on. Shake the bottle at least twice every day for 5 or 6 days, drain the garlic and lemon liquid out of the bottle, then fill the bottle up again with water.

With the liquid you have make a 20% to 30% dilution and put it in the birds drinkers. Can be given once or twice a week.

WHY? - Garlic is well known for thinning the blood and cleaning the liver, it also helps to remove impurities from the system. The lemon gives a slightly acid environment in the pigeons crop and helps to avoid canker and to a certain extent cocci.

Also lemon has a natural antibacterial quality.

The bottle can be re-filled with water 3 or 4 times before throwing away the garlic and lemon and starting again.

Phil

David wrote:

right Darren, ive been reading on the internet and one bloke uses cloves for one day a week, and another uses it for 2 weeks in the water, then 2 weeks fresh plain water.......

do you think you can over do using it, or does it just depend on the fancier...?

various ways to use it david phils way is good to also powder form is ok I just use it a couple of times a week some just pop a few cloves into a bottle of naturaline and then add to water lots of different ways to use it

Just a word about Garlic POWDER:-

Garlic contains at least 33 sulfur compounds like aliin, allicin, ajoene, allylpropl, diallyl, trisulfide, sallylcysteine, vinyldithiines, S-allylmercaptocystein, and others. Besides sulfure compounds garlic contains 17 amino acids and their glycosides, arginine and others.

Unfortunately the processes that raw garlic goes through to get it to be 'Powdered' garlic, renders the natural garlic almost useless.

The best and only effective way to use garlic is to put it directly into the water whole as as I explained.

Phil

does garlic oil work phil...I have used a product called strike by gem products and gardex both garlic powder based products to very good effect ,noticeable down the morning after use to strike has got me out of jail a few times without using antibiotics

oldstrain wrote:

David wrote:

right Darren, ive been reading on the internet and one bloke uses cloves for one day a week, and another uses it for 2 weeks in the water, then 2 weeks fresh plain water.......

do you think you can over do using it, or does it just depend on the fancier...?

various ways to use it david phils way is good to also powder form is ok I just use it a couple of times a week some just pop a few cloves into a bottle of naturaline and then add to water lots of different ways to use it

that's another thing I used to use Darren, that I don't use any more.....naturaline, I used to like this, plus it was fairly cheap compared to some "pigeon products"

I remember buying something a while ago which was quite expensive, and came to the conclusion it smelled and looked exactly the same as naturaline....

cant remember what it was now.....

oldstrain wrote:

does garlic oil work phil...I have used a product called strike by gem products and gardex both garlic powder based products to very good effect ,noticeable down the morning after use to strike has got me out of jail a few times without using antibiotics

What we ALL need to do as pigeon fanciers who want to WIN and not just get our birds home in a good-ish time - Is to start thinking a bit more about 'what really is in the products we buy and give our birds'! And stop listening to what the ad men are trying to get us to buy.

For instance the product Darren spoke about - Gem Strike - this is what Gem say on their advert -

"Gem Strike II 500gr, ( keeps the pigeons 100% healthy and reduces the need for antibiotics)"

What the heck does all that mean? How can ANY product keep a pigeon 100% healthy? It is an false claim.

It also says in the advertising blurb - sulphur-containing compounds and bird-specific lactic acid bacteria. Firstly the Sulphur compounds come from the garlic and, secondly, there are at least 5,000 different types of 'Bird' specific lactic acids - how do WE as pigeon people know that what Gem are using is the right PIGEON type of lactic acid.

OK, regarding oil-based garlic supplements - what sort of oil are they using as a carrier oil? What type and what kind of oil? Wheat germ oil comes in several types - Cold pressed, Hot pressed and possibly distilled. All of which have a different shelf-life. For instance, organic virgin cold-pressed wheat germ oil has a shelf-life of less than 2 months if kept out of the fridge.

Calendula (or St John's Wort) oil is another amazing oil for the treatment of skin wounds, cuts, abrasions, as in when your bird hits a wire, gets struck by a hawk or comes back with its skin torn. But that type of oil needs to be kept in the fridge and, again, will only last a couple of months even if kept in the fridge.

In a nutshell, if you want to use garlic and oil on your birds' corn, pour about 150 ml of sunflower oil into a jam jar, break 2 or 3 cloves of garlic into it, and let it sit for 5 days before you use it.

But the question is why do you want to do that? If you want to give garlic, give it in their water, and if you want to give a little bit of oil on their corn, which is great for them at this time of year when they are moulting, buy a bottle of rapeseed oil from the supermarket (cheap as chips) and pour a very small amount on their corn.

In conclusion, we have got to stop listening to all the hype that the ad men push down our throats every time we open a pigeon comic or go to some pigeon exhibition. We need to start asking questions. You all know what I feel about electrolytes - there is NO scientific proof that it works on pigeons after they have raced - fact.

Phil

good post phil

If racing pigeons had to have garlic to race, then this pigeon fancier would be a fancier of something else, stuff absolutely stinks

oldstrain wrote:

does garlic oil work phil...I have used a product called strike by gem products and gardex both garlic powder based products to very good effect ,noticeable down the morning after use to strike has got me out of jail a few times without using antibiotics

Strike has honey in it and what have I said about Honey

Fair play but with all that information not one off you have said that Garlic is a natural de-wormer

blueskylofts wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

does garlic oil work phil...I have used a product called strike by gem products and gardex both garlic powder based products to very good effect ,noticeable down the morning after use to strike has got me out of jail a few times without using antibiotics

What we ALL need to do as pigeon fanciers who want to WIN and not just get our birds home in a good-ish time -  Is to start thinking a bit more about 'what really is in the products we buy and give our birds'!  And stop listening to what the ad men are trying to get us to buy.

For instance the product Darren spoke about - Gem Strike - this is what Gem say on their advert -

"Gem Strike II 500gr, ( keeps the pigeons 100% healthy and reduces the need for antibiotics)"

What the heck does all that mean?  How can ANY product keep a pigeon 100% healthy?  It is an false claim.

It also says in the advertising blurb -  sulphur-containing compounds and bird-specific lactic acid bacteria.  Firstly the Sulphur compounds come from the garlic and, secondly, there are at least 5,000 different types of 'Bird' specific lactic acids - how do WE as pigeon people know that what Gem are using is the right PIGEON type of lactic acid.

OK, regarding oil-based garlic supplements - what sort of oil are they using as a carrier oil?  What type and what kind of oil?  Wheat germ oil comes in several types - Cold pressed, Hot pressed and possibly distilled.  All of which have a different shelf-life.  For instance, organic virgin cold-pressed wheat germ oil has a shelf-life of less than 2 months if kept out of the fridge.

Calendula (or St John's Wort) oil is another amazing oil for the treatment of skin wounds, cuts, abrasions, as in when your bird hits a wire, gets struck by a hawk or comes back with its skin torn.  But that type of oil needs to be kept in the fridge and, again, will only last a couple of months even if kept in the fridge.

In a nutshell, if you want to use garlic and oil on your birds' corn, pour about 150 ml of sunflower oil into a jam jar, break 2 or 3 cloves of garlic into it, and let it sit for 5 days before you use it.

But the question is why do you want to do that?  If you want to give garlic, give it in their water, and if you want to give a little bit of oil on their corn, which is great for them at this time of year when they are moulting, buy a bottle of rapeseed oil from the supermarket (cheap as chips) and pour a very small amount on their corn.

In conclusion, we have got to stop listening to all the hype that the ad men push down our throats every time we open a pigeon comic or go to some pigeon exhibition.  We need to start asking questions.  You all know what I feel about electrolytes - there is NO scientific proof that it works on pigeons after they have raced - fact.

Phil

Phil can I just say the garlic cloves is what Dave Allen write in the pigeons books and told fanciers on the video he produced

Plus why not use peanut oil great for the pigeons

Garlic Puree. Comes in a bottle from he grocery store. Cheap. teaspoon or more or less per gallon water.

I hate garlic personally. However. For a pigeon to win a race what is essential? All the herbs and spices available? Strict feeding regime involving many different mixes? Clean loft or deep litter? Antibiotics, vaccines? No computer model yet developed can answer those questions. Strain, pedigrees? Good influencing factor.
Nest or widowhood or any other variation also contributes to a birds performance.
But all said and done, a good consistent pigeon will race in any of the above scenarios. But to win? The manager. One who recognizes when the bird is ready to perform by past experience or a gut feeling. The one bird counts. Numbers? Only one winner no matter how many one sends. Want to know why you did not win this week? Look in the mirror! I do quite often!!

halcanada wrote:

I hate garlic personally. However. For a pigeon to win a race what is essential? All the herbs and spices available? Strict feeding regime involving many different mixes? Clean loft or deep litter? Antibiotics, vaccines? No computer model yet developed can answer those questions.  Strain, pedigrees? Good influencing factor.
Nest or widowhood or any other variation also contributes to a birds performance.
But all said and done, a good consistent pigeon will race in any of the above scenarios. But to win? The manager. One who recognizes when  the bird is ready to perform by past experience or a gut feeling. The one bird counts.  Numbers? Only one winner no matter how many one sends. Want to know why you did not win this week? Look in the mirror! I do quite often!!  

quite right to sir no frilly bits and said as it is

It's enough already!

Use garlic if you want to - don't if you don't.

Can't get any simpler than naturally grown garlic - it's not fancy. Pigeon fanciers make things complicated.

No one said you have to feed garlic to WIN!

The advertisers of products (garlic included) might say 'Without this product you will not win' but not the thinking pigeon man

Phil

halcanada wrote:

I hate garlic personally. However. For a pigeon to win a race what is essential? All the herbs and spices available? Strict feeding regime involving many different mixes? Clean loft or deep litter? Antibiotics, vaccines? No computer model yet developed can answer those questions.  Strain, pedigrees? Good influencing factor.
Nest or widowhood or any other variation also contributes to a birds performance.
But all said and done, a good consistent pigeon will race in any of the above scenarios. But to win? The manager. One who recognizes when  the bird is ready to perform by past experience or a gut feeling. The one bird counts.  Numbers? Only one winner no matter how many one sends. Want to know why you did not win this week? Look in the mirror! I do quite often!!  

Well said Hal - at the end of the day it is all down to the fancier.

Phil

Don - I have learnt something today already.

I didn't know Dave Allen kept pigeons. I thought his sat on a chair, smoked and drank whiskey and told jokes.

Phil

blueskylofts wrote:

Don - I have learnt something today already.

I didn't know Dave Allen kept pigeons.  I thought his sat on a chair, smoked and drank whiskey and told jokes.

Phil

I prefer Bernard manning, he`s jokes are a lot better........

David wrote:

blueskylofts wrote:

Don - I have learnt something today already.

I didn't know Dave Allen kept pigeons.  I thought his sat on a chair, smoked and drank whiskey and told jokes.

Phil

I prefer Bernard manning, he`s jokes are a lot better........

Mr Manning - REALLY?  He is disgusting. Plus I never did like his Turkey burgers!

Phil

he was a great man was Bernard, altho` his turkey drummers are probably halal now the company is owned by a Pakistani .

blueskylofts wrote:

It's enough already!

Use garlic if you want to - don't if you don't.

Can't get any simpler than naturally grown garlic - it's not fancy.  Pigeon fanciers make things complicated.

No one said you have to feed garlic to WIN!

The advertisers of products (garlic included) might say 'Without this product you will not win' but not the thinking pigeon man

Phil

what a carryon eh

[quote="blueskylofts"]Don - I have learnt something today already.

I didn't know Dave Allen kept pigeons.  I thought his sat on a chair, smoked and drank whiskey and told jokes.

Phil[/quot

Your getting that Dave Allen mixed up with Dave Allen of Sheffield the one who obtained the Staf van Reet with Bert Hession of Blackpool and was the first person to bring them into this country