Too much training?

I think Dean Pallet was spot on saying 'The best thing he ever learned regards pigeons was - You can't win out of a bottle'.
Moreover, I say you can't motivate a pigeon to home faster if it doesn't care enough, or want, to be there. Plus only healthy and conditioned pigeon win races.

One art to understanding the relationship between 'Fat and Oxygen'. Fat is undoubtedly needed to fly on! Especially for hard, enduring and distance races to achieve a sound velocity.
All sports personal, and animals and likewise pigeons need good oxygen. Oxygen in the blood is essential and very important also, to control the fat in any exertion.

Every gram of fat burned equals a unit of heat to fly on. In reality a unit, or gram of heat – energy! Getting the balance right is a must. Too much fat means more oxygen is needed. However, if not sufficient it stagnates and becomes heavy on the heartbeat and power is lost as it then tires and trying becomes burdensome Too little fat means it will burn up the fat and then the muscles. Burnt muscles cause toxin straight off. So weeks of just rest is a must! Starting with light seeds, its the only way to restore and upbuild a pigeon Indeed, any sportsperson or animal or bird. Possible after every race Linseed should be first feed!?!?!

I would have retired early, if I could have had a £1 every time I heard some fancier spouting 'Lazy pigeon ( Or words to that effect lol) It just sits around the loft, and then when out just flies from rooftop to rooftop'. Then unbelievably others fanciers saying. 'Get it in the basket and send it 'up the road'! … 'or some other spouting ' I've had one or two that. I tried sending them 'up the road' ... they didn't eat my corn after that, that's for sure' Etc.

In the last few years, I never raced or tossed y/b's. Just left them to create a contented love of home.
As yearlings - two-year-olds, the first time in the basket was often a 150 mile - 200 mile race.
Only won once with such a bird granted. However, I was seldom, if ever, out of the first ten. Mostly I was in the top six with such birds! Remembering three fanciers alone, sent 160 to nigh 200 birds between them every inland race, Indeed many overseas too. The other 25 members were sending what they thought best.

Health and condition, contentment and above all, a love of home. - Like yours and mine, their' HEALTH dictates what, why and how was the possible way forward for the birds, as it is for us. However, have, had, see read countless times of pigeons excelling against what many seem to believe is against the norm.

When I started on my own, I, like my dad and most club members at the time, never trained y/b birds — they were let to fly out once or twice a day. Then straight into their' first race. Mine was mostly the 5th race Northallerton. One hundred forty miles, because of my circumstances at the time.
Some fanciers did very well via just sending them 10 -or 20 miles every day and fed in with a treat.
All roads lead to Rome they say, Well, I think, personally, that too many compare pigeons in human terms much and very often to the pigeon's detrimental abilities.

Do we have a catch 22 every other day regarding the best way forward and for our beloved birds?

I, as the above post suggests, leads me to feel one is, in regards the One loft races / set up.

Do pigeons need all the training? Indeed do they learn anything that they haven't by just flying 100's of miles in a wide radius. Sixty miles afar incircles is nothing!
However, then I feel that many fanciers wouldn't agree, and in retrospect wouldn't send youngsters the following season, as they think it is a must.

If the birds have taught us anything for sure, then that is 'As we haven't the foggiest of how they home to the loft! Agree condition is a must. For instance, we know that we can't, for love or money, condition a pigeon-like they do themselves. Especially if away for a week or two.
I will say I feel that 'Pigeon concerns' are, and have been, moulded on what other fanciers believe in human terms. What so - call 'Names' spout! Sadly so very often to the detriment to the pigeon firstly, then the so-called sport!

Not hear say nor theory, pigeons do NOT need training if conditioned properly at home, and they have a unconditional love of same, the stronger the love of the loft and providing the right feed etc; is involved the better they will not want to be away too long and will win out of turn if they have the natural ability, sows ear etc;.


As opposed to artificial stimulation.


Regards.

I know one certainty! For a fact you won't be losing any needlessly by taking them up the road, that's for sure.
Another certainty is that after a race or two - or less, they will be up with the leaders and heading for home. Yes, more than holding their' own.
Now one may well say/ask 'Will they all drop together'? Of course not ... well not at first. However, you will know when your loft is on form for then they will drop in clusters.

Another certainty is that money, saved, can be put to better use.

Open loft - if possible - is a virtue in its self.

P.s, remember pigeons race to the perch/nest box. Their' territory! Not to a hen/mate.
Sitting hens save energy AND heighten the want of protecting their territory. Likewise hens newly having hatched eggs too. Protecting their territory is heightened. Cock birds on big young un! Well, they will be driving and keen to defend their territory!

Yep agree Daz.

I found that individual pigeons had their own preferences in many different situations which you could take advantage of if you knew them as individuals.

Would have been shocked if the same pigeons came back first every week, I always put the pigeons I had preferences for in a race first on the race sheet and this varied week on week.

Tried to get a first with every pigeon in the loft.


Never made not winning a cause for dismay, just a little set back, more pleasure in other aspects of the sport than winning races.


Giving fellow fanciers pigeons that won for them being as enjoyable as almost anything but above all just watching and ensuring our feathered friends had as near as possible to a natural life with little interference from me was the most enjoyable part, a source of pleasure as many hours a day as I wished.


Would never have been interested in all the artificial none sense that has almost ruined both the sport and in particular the pigeon.


Regards.

There is absolutely no reason a Canadian bred bird cannot win that or any other OLR. The world wide business in importing, exporting pigeons has just about evey country with pretty even base to select from.A Barcelona winner comes along and many desire the bloodlines. Or SA winner etc,. Genetics get spread around. Some winners produce offspring that win out of turn. Some a larger percentage than others. No mean feat when one takes in to account the countries and conditions they have to compete in. Most fliers love to win and will readily buy offspring. Winning genes breed a higher % of winners as been noted. I just wonder though. If every flier was only allowed to breed x number of birds, say 20, I believe the guy with the genetic skills will come out on top. But that would tick off so many people many would leave. Better the way it is now. Everyone has hope!! JMO.
Posted this on another site. Victori Falls OLR. Bird doing well.

had it occurred to you guys that maybe the untrained ybs were taking advantage of trained ybs and following their lead ...I wonder how it would pan out if absolutely nobody trained before the first race and they all went 60 or so miles and had a peregrine strike or clashed with other birds I just wonder how many would make it home …?

On the very odd occasions I did train young birds the first and only toss on the South Road was 40 miles, and Redcar on the North Road 35 Miles, made no difference to the results.


Can see no benefit in up and down the road if the pigeons are getting enough flying at home, and are fit, no doubt training is a must for those who keep their pigeons confined for 80% of the time but has no effect on their ability.

A pigeon has the natural ability to to home and does not need showing the way.


Regards.

Makes me smile. Pigeons- YB's after ranging - do at least 440 yards a circle! More like at least six hundred.
Now while watching, as one enjoys doing when can count every three laps/circles. That is miles that they have flown. Who thinks wasting time and money going 20 - 30 miles up the road is needed?


A bigger smile I often had was hearing 'My birds are doing 2 hours(or so or more) flying out! Alternatively, proudly spout 'Tearing up the skies'!
My thoughts are simple here. 'they should be in the loft conserving their energy.
On the open hole, they reach a natural 90%- 95% condition, AND they will themselves bring on super form ... which lasts tops seven weeks.

No sportsperson or dog/horse trainer keep their charge 100% fit but bring them to peak at the appropriate time for the race(s) they want. Yes, an art, and many times, one may miss that race, but gain another. Indeed another art is 'Peeking ' different birds at different times throughout the race season.

Yes Daz, but why keep things simple when you can waste time and money and in the process, using all the artificial aids etc; keep the commercial boys bank balances at a high and ruin the health of the pigeons.


Regards.

open hole is ok but we cant all do it and i just wonder if novices are looking in and thinking of no training and into first race ,i just wonder if it would demoralise them before they even get going i would think trained ybs have a better chance,theirs a couple of oldhands down our club who adopt the same attitude to not training ybs but sadly they never see the yb season out and never have a team of old birds to race with,always clutching at straws sending the odd bird to a race...we all have our opinions and to not train the ybs is not for me and i for one would never give that as advice to novices jmo yes makes me smile to

Open hole is not feasible for many. Partial here. I have trained heavy in the past and done well. Young birds. Old birds seldom. Many a time untrained young will follow trained young. The trainjed young have figured out the quickest way back.
Tracking young here show that some young cross the river St. Lawrence, go into the US then head West and then recross Lake Ontario/ Erie in to Canada. Good stretch of water. They have the experience. Sometimes tracking bands show them go North then back down. The more experience they get the better. Will train this year. Few 40 milers.

There are many roads to Rome.

I go by results and nothing else.


If you read all the best fanciers you will find contradictions in every department.


Read those with all the advantages and you will get a load of commercial and miss leading none sense, often not saying all the advantages they receive and have, promoting matters they do not use themselves etc;


Irrespective of any other consideration a pigeon does not need to be shown the way home, jumpted pigeons, untrained, into races of varying distances and won with them, against pigeons sent day in day out, depends on the quality of the fancier and the pigeon.


Of course if you have a fancier who does not train nor feed and attend to the pigeons in a proper manner then he/she will be beaten by a fancier who looks after his/her pigeons and trains.


Some of the present day fanciers I would neither trust nor give house room to.


AS for the youth of today being interested?.


There are too many alternatives requiring far less effort and commitment available for us to put forward a reasonable case to the young people.


Used to be father and son, as oldstrain and Alfie, now you would need a complete reversal of events during the past 50 years for that to be a possibility.


All the adverts regarding the sport encourages one to think you need a bottomless pocket to even get on the ladder, and then only on the bottom rung.


Most grass root fanciers are well aware of the possibility of becoming engaged in the sport for almost nothing, with all the good will shown by many fanciers but that is not how the sport is portrayed.


In my opinion I think the real heart and the original intention has been lost by the actions of the latter day fanciers, and not the grass root ones.


Regards.

Oldstrain, I appreciate what you are saying.

My nephew's father in law was as good as any in the Peterborough and surrounding Feds.

My nephew related that I was starting up. - I previously only took note of my dad and few fanciers etc. That came from Fanciers etc. but wanted to learn. often Had had many time related to me, not only in pigeons but many other fields that you needed to learn from a good teacher as possible, and that a good pupil would often turn out better than the master - that in pigeons I find hard to believe in many respects now a days.
For instance my mum, her sisters, and especially that their' aunt was so good that they all thought she would pass out as a concert pianist at least. So the aunt went to a very good teacher. After 3 weeks the teacher explained to her that - in his opinion she had obtain as high as she would get. Long story short she had been taught bad habits, which he explained were as easy to learn as good ones, but any habit was hard to change. Especially in that field.

Took a lot of store in that when running kids football teams and boxing club etc.


Any way I go off, with nephew and his wife, to Peterborough chuffed as could be to meet the master. Spent a day feeling peeved off. Talk a little regards pigeons of course. When 4 O' Clock came I was actually pleased to be leaving.
When I got to the front door he said 'Did you learn anything'? I I was a mite stunned to say the least. He gave me a phone number of his mate Huntingdon way saying He says he has a couple of pairs of good stock birds for me, and that he would send me a couple of pairs etc.
I didn't know what to say or think, but muttered 'thank you'!
Then he told me 'Much is in what I actually said - if you glean the meaning' . O h thanks I mutter think of a couple of unkind thoughts and wondering if he was sharp.

'Now' Roly he said 'When you get those birds from … Another fancier or two .. You must break them within three days. Yes if they go back fetch and let go them again within three to break properly. Otherwise they will return to their loft often before coming to yours's.

I took that aboard and noted it and said I would get the fanciers permission first etc. Worked a treat. Nephew and wife was waiting lol but then he said 'Roly you will learn, and think a little regards tampering here and there, feeling will be better and you will steal a march. So think of the things you heard. Get those off birds off Rouke and keep them in. Call me and come over any time... But best jot down questions and happenings and come and see me in two years when you are really up for knuckling down and sorting a system that suits you, then the birds. One that is simple for starters. One that can be easily maintained'!
Words of wisdom that.
So yes Oldstrain you will get a large percent that will think that. But the bug may well bite in, then they will start thinking pigeon wise. I don't for the merest of a second think A. it will put any one-off. B. May give them the thought of how to outdo us old folks etc. An repour will become with one or two fanciers, or many, and they will be steer to an outcome etc.

As for the getting the 'Youth of today' interested, that can be a trial to say the least.  
But a good catchment area could well be the older folks. Retire looking for worth while hobby/ past time.

The way I approached the sport was, what would I respond best to were I a pigeon.


After much thought I came to the conclusion was, A HAPPY HOME and left as near as possible to nature.


This was reinforced when I contacted a Mr, Kellaway, who sent me a hand written book on how to fly pigeons.


He had advertised Fuller Isaacson pigeons of which I had some as gift birds from a fancier who was packing in and were from another top fancier who was well known for the breed, I believe his son still has the breed.


Mr Kellaway would not part with the pigeon I wanted, not one as advertised, but sent me the book anyway. ( I lost the book when moving house, but never forgot the advice)


The last sentence which I recall was, DO NOT PLAY HENIOUS TRICKS ON YOUR PIGEONS AND THEY WILL REPAY YOU TREBLE FOLD.


Worked for me.


Regards.

Hugh Cropper was the other fancier.

Regards.

I just had an interesting phone call just now. A reporter from CBC Halifax called me to do an interview on racing pigeons in Nova Scotia and our club , Central Nova RPC. They are coming with a camera crew to do an interview. I will let all know when it will be shown on television.

Going well here.

Good luck with everything Hal, great opportunity for you and your colleagues in the club

Barnie. Must clarify. Dave Ottaway used to fly around here in Ontario. Did very well.
Retired bought land in Nova Scotia. Bay of Fundy. East coast. 1000 plus miles East.
Took his birds with him. Built a loft. Asked around found a few flioers interested. Started a club. Nova Scotia club. Recruited members. Bought a trailer and refurbished it. Club now has about 20 members and growing. Large area. Racing now, just started. Old and young together. 3rd year and going great!!

what a great opportunity to maybe attract some new members to your club

Hope it goes well Hal, and maybe give us some ideas over here.


The problem we have is we need to increase the membership by thousands to keep it a viable proposition for the youngsters of the future.


We lose many fanciers on a continual basis through natural causes which due to the
average age of the membership will only increase.


Just hope some viable ideas emerge it would be a real buck up.


Regards.

Hope all goes well Hal. Indeed doubt very much that it won't...

Misty said, quote '...…. Giving fellow fanciers pigeons that won for them being as enjoyable as almost anything but above all just watching and ensuring our feathered friends had as near as possible to a natural life with little interference from me was the most enjoyable part, a source of pleasure as many hours a day as I wished'. End of quote.

How very true.
Had Barry phone me saying that he'd given Mick my phone number as he was so delighted in winning his first Federation with a bird I'd given him. I said then it would / should / could do the distances of which I had no doubt.  He flew in the same fed, with a different clubs ( One I had once been a member and Dad's. Everyone, but everyone, in that club, knew it was from me as he kept saying so lol.. He had won a 400 mile on the day bird.
But the joy he and the blissful state he was in when he phoned me the next day was overwhelming. I was so pleased with him!

We became close friends also after that.

You know we have thoughts and tribulations most weeks in regards to how our planning was/had/ is turning out. Decisions as to some time whether to send a particular bird or even if any etc.   Yes, we search the skies in hope and oft a little tribulation. Many days too in much confidence. But we also have slight anxiety too for their return.

But when we see the bird aching down, or appearing from nowhere to land on the loft race days is a tremendous joy every time nigh … then we may turn to think of how well our bird might have done. Only ever had a slight tribulation after striking off... But of course, wished to know etc.
That is part and partial to the love of our game.
Then of being pleased or thoughts of doing better next week.