Natural v Darkness

whats members thoughts on racing ybs natural or having them on the dark system ......as you all know ive rarely raced since coming back into pigeons, but on the times i did, i found the natural ybs exercised and flew better around home or training than the birds who had been on the dark ......i found the birds on dark didnt want to exercise around home, and would prefer to laze around the loft pairing up etc .........I also found that sometimes the ybs were exercising well, then a week after going on the dark they would stop flying well .

i know dark birds moult quick, therefor by the time racing comes they are like yearlings, so would have the advantage of being more mature, but also they do not moult the wing flights which means they are not dropping to bits and having to miss races .

could breeding ybs earlier still give us the same results, and the ybs will be moulted out by the time racing comes, therefor meaning we did not need to darken ?

any thoughts anyone ...?

Leave as natural, June 21st is longest day. Keep them on that length of light until racing is finished. Works well.

what hal has said ....i did this last year and we had our best results in the last 3 yb races from 145,165,190 miles all headwinds to and we only dropped 1 yb in the last 3 races that was the final race...ok we never sent more than a dozen but they still got us 2x1st 3x2nd 3x3rd 3x4th 1x5th club and 3rd 7th 12th open in those 3 races so no more darkening for me ,i have a yb now with only 3 and 4 flights to go they be through come racing and they were weaned late march but most are april ybs i even have a pair bred in may and a pair weaned 1 week ago all will make the races,the beauty of not darkening is they are healthier you can exercise when ya want and feed what ya want (light feed but plenty) as no fast moult to contend with ...i feed the ybs alot of small seeds obs to but never use oils atb

oldstrain wrote:

what hal has said ....i did this last year and we had our best results in the last 3 yb races from 145,165,190 miles all headwinds to and we only dropped 1 yb in the last 3 races that was the final race...ok we never sent more than a dozen but they still got us 2x1st 3x2nd 3x3rd 3x4th 1x5th club and 3rd 7th 12th open in those 3 races so no more darkening for me ,i have a yb now with only 3 and 4 flights to go they be through come racing and they were weaned late march but most are april ybs i even have a pair bred in may and a pair weaned 1 week ago all will make the races,the beauty of not darkening is they are healthier you can exercise when ya want and feed what ya want (light feed but plenty) as no fast moult to contend with ...i feed the ybs alot of small seeds obs to but never use oils atb

Another coming aware off I guess Misty.
Like I Often say, May mating's flew the program. Came in on the 3rd race. The first of a come back race for that reason. Weren't ever behind and certainly were on par with the loft, and club's birds.

i had 6 ybs that never made the first 3 races when we came back to do those 3 races in the yb programme they were entered ,out of the 6 five are in the loft and raced until the end 190 miles so it just goes to show eh ,mind you mine were always carrying fat reserves as feed alot of small seeds and this seems to help out when they go astray and return later in the day or evening but seldom do you see ybs the next day these days

David wrote:

whats members thoughts on racing ybs natural or having them on the dark system ......as you all know ive rarely raced since coming back into pigeons, but on the times i did, i found the natural ybs exercised and flew better around home or training than the birds who had been on the dark ......i found the birds on dark didnt want to exercise around home, and would prefer to laze around the loft pairing up etc .........I also found that sometimes the ybs were exercising well, then a week after going on the dark they would stop flying well .

i know dark birds moult quick, therefor by the time racing comes they are like yearlings, so would have the advantage of being more mature, but also they do not moult the wing  flights which means they are not dropping to bits and having to miss races .

could breeding ybs earlier still give us the same results, and the ybs will be moulted out by the time racing comes, therefor meaning we did not need to darken ?

any thoughts anyone ...?

This is my up take on this matter the reason for Darkness was to get the youngsters sexually mature for the big national races plus they are able to keep a full wing

Natural youngsters yes you bred them early and they start to moult heavily during the racing which puts them on the self come the main national races

If you want youngsters to be sexually mature for the big races why not pair up later

Rather than pair up December time why not pair up February you have a 10 week age gap and the younger youngsters will start to mature towards the end of the season just ready for the (Big National Races)

So why not try a team of early bred youngsters and a team of later youngsters and compare there results. JMO

Yes Daz. a lot of time and effort wasted in pigeon racing.

Had winning young birds in nearly ever state of moult.

If they are fit and healthy nature says they are able.

Without initial training and lost very few.

Came one open young bird race we had a young hen as fit as a fiddle, only she only had 8 full primaries and not anywhere near through the body moult, they said I was mad to send her.

They did not say anything when she won the race, and that was no exception with my experience with young birds.

Also bred the odd young bird in October, November etc; that did well as yearlings.

There is no hard and fast rules, one will come up with different situations covering nearly every possible combination that worked for them.

I always kept as near to nature as possible, fool around with nature and ultimately you will get kicked where it hurts.

Regards.

We race dark just to compete but I hate it to be honest and with it wasn't here. Natural ybs I think turn out better but dark get more education

yes, it was the third flight down a third most wanted to been seen, when basketing. old or youngsters.

if i ever race again, i think i will fly ybs natural .......not worth the hassle messing about with darkness, plus darkness doesnt make crap birds into good birds ......

David wrote:

if i ever race again, i think i will fly ybs natural .......not worth the hassle messing about with darkness, plus darkness doesnt make crap birds into good birds ......

Right on David.

halcanada81 wrote:

Leave as natural, June 21st is longest day. Keep them on that length of light until racing is finished. Works well.

just read your response to the natural v dark young birds flying,just wondering if you maybe have any advice or some sort of system as I'm very interested in trying this next year, cheers mate

Buster58 wrote:

halcanada81 wrote:

Leave as natural, June 21st is longest day. Keep them on that length of light until racing is finished. Works well.

just read your response to the natural v dark young birds flying,just wondering if you maybe have any advice or some sort of system as I'm very interested in trying this next year, cheers mate

Unforetunately our Hal member has joined the angels ( hopefully) and is greatly missed.

Sure there are members who could enlighten you regarding their experience using the system.

Personaly never did nor ever would flought nature, you always eventually get a kick up the backside.

Regards..

Very sorry to hear that rip mal,what would your opinion be ,cheers

i dont rate the darkness system it limits what you can do regards exercise and training and feeding ,although i have used the system and did well on it ...for me though yer much better off breeding later and racing natural as i had my best yb seasons doing this atb

Buster58 wrote:

Very sorry to hear that rip mal,what would your opinion be ,cheers

Never tried Darkness, the little I know about it  I dislike.


For  the majority of the time I have been lucky enough to have complete open loft.

Bred young birds at different times throughout the year always had some ready and able never saw the sense in breeding all at the same time.

Always based my opinion on having a happy environment with as little intrtusion
as possible.


Best of luck choose what you decide, think the happeir a pigeonn is the more desire to return as fast as possible.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Buster58 wrote:

Very sorry to hear that rip mal,what would your opinion be ,cheers

Never tried Darkness, the little I know about it  I dislike.


For  the majority of the time I have been lucky enough to have complete open loft.

Bred young birds at different times throughout the year always had some ready and able never saw the sense in breeding all at the same time.

Always based my opinion on having a happy environment with as little intrtusion
as possible.


Best of luck choose what you decide, think the happeir a pigeonn is the more desire to return as fast as possible.

Regards.

Old club mate of many years & toss partner here for many years etc Misty      "back when" just won the local Fed at the weekend (2000 odd birds). Previous week all his club mates there apparently were at his house to read their clocks because their club rooms were not available on the day. Suspect somehow all saw there what was to be seen as they say but sadly really didn't see there maybe        what makes him somewhat different to most of his fellow club mates on average .

first couple of YB races then natural YB may well be in the mix, once they fall into the moult the darkness YB will leave them in their wake. You'll see results out now and the coming weeks with fanciers taking the first 10 or 20 in the race all clocked in a minute or two. These will be darkness pigeons arriving in a batch.
That's not to say a healthy, suitably feathered natural yb with its covers in and not bare around the neck and ears, can't do well on occasion maybe sitting or feeding a baby.
Natural fanciers will end up picking their races depending on what can go but darkness fanciers can send the full team every week giving better odds.

There is another aspect to consider HEALTH.

Would not believe any fancier who goes against nature and does not have unheathy pigeons needing constant medication, including those with clinical lofts.

I always liken it to a car, can look delightful from the outside with a useless engine within, abuse the engine with higher octane than recommended and you have short term better performance but ruin the engine etc; etc;

I won my share against darkness youngsters year after year including the last year I raced in my old club and never ever used medication or aids to win, you need healthy pigeons firstly, those with the ability to peform and the knowledge of how to get them to perform to their best.

Many roads to Rome and Darkness youngsters can be beaten by having the right pigeons and knowing how to get them to perform for the love of the loft.

Regards.

on the rare occasions ive raced , ive tried darkness, and each time was a disaster .....i would never do it again.

each time they have stopped exercising and just sat around the loft, more interested in pairing up or pecking about on the grass, total waste of time if you ask me, but yet more experienced of knowledgeable fanciers do well on it, so its down to the individual .

one thing i know for sure is it doesnt make winners out of also rans, if the bird is crap it doesnt make it a winner.

Cheers for the tips guys,misty......could you give me some advice on you use the natural system ie...the best time of year for pairing the birds up and just in general the daily routine ,spend good money and my birds want for nothing .tried all sorts but something isn't clicking,any advice would be great fully appreciated, cheers

Buster58 wrote:

Cheers for the tips guys,misty......could you give me some advice on you use the natural system ie...the best time of year for pairing the birds up and just in general the daily routine ,spend good money and my birds want for nothing .tried all sorts but something isn't clicking,any advice would be great fully appreciated, cheers

Know little about darkness here etc Buster 58 Geordie mate thou tried it in the past here. Birds left mine for dead on the perch there sadly but come race day here on average I had the last laugh for the most part. Now story goes as an example, fly distance, buy distance birds, fly widowhood, buy widowhood birds, fly sprint type races, see Jeremy type of thing     maybe .

Buster58, can only say the conclusions I came to after fooling around with every kind of aid to win I could lay my hands on from the age of 16 when I first flew in partnership with an ex RAF member, having had pigeons since 4/5 years old.

Firstly, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear, a pigeon must initially have the ability to perform the task you ask of it.

Once the penny dropped, ie; you need good pigeons, healthy pigeons and the means of motivation that makes them want to home faster than any other fanciers pigeons.

After careful thought I came to the conclusion the happier I was at home the faster I would want to return when away from home.

So I thought the happiest I could make the pigeons was to give them a life as near to nature as possible.

So I adopted open loft, complete open loft, only closed on race days.

So as not to disturb more than necessary I had deep litter of sand and lime,
a nd lime washed the interior of the loft

Some condemn lime but results speak louder than words.

I also had garlic in the water every day.

Obviously grit and minerals were available all the time.

Never use any medication, nor aids to win.

Initially the odd pigeon got ill but was culled and after a time there were never any ill pigeons not once did I have YBS or anything else in the loft.

Bred youngsters almost all year round, not many but always some in good condition.

The fewer you keep the better you know them as individuals and when at their best for racing.

They were fed the same mixture all the year round, pea nuts used as a treat and for tameness.

Tis imperative that you have capable pigeons in the first place or you are waisting your time and no system will help, also the good pigeons have to be in good health.

Took me a long time to get the pigeons I wanted for stock and culled some that
did not come up to expectations, all part of the learning curve.

Their is also a lady that plays a major part, LADY LUCK.

Hope not bored you but that is how I kept them and they won for me and many other fanciers who I gifted youngsters to.

Regards.

good reading misty, and good advise, ill bear this in mind myself.