The Value of the RPRA

i read this persons post on another pigeon group a few days ago, and thought it raised a few good points, i know some of our members think the rpra is run poorly in some cases .......i wondered what their thoughts are on this persons post , .


RPRA - What value does it bring


Before I start please take this topic as a constructive posting. To address a question often heard at meetings and general club conversations.

When I first started racing pigeons in the UK I cold not understand why I had to belong to an organization in order to participate in a sport I had been doing in two other countries where this was not necessary. Everyone I asked could not answer this question. The general reply was its always been that way here? I could not understand why a Club or Fed could not govern its own affairs. It happens where I had raced else where in the world. Every year when paying subs I could not understand why you had to pay membership to your Club/Fed, the mother Club and on top of that to the RPRA. I could not understand why every year you would hear others complaining about this but not challenge it. Year upon year I could not see the value of its compulsory membership.

Coming from a 3rd world Country I was shocked to see the use of out dated clocks and the use of thimbles. Pigeon Clubs poorly constructed with little or no facilities for members spouses and children. Where has all the money accumulated by these Clubs over the years been spent? The Club I was a member I was told was over 100 years old. It doesn't own a brick. Two rundown wooden sheds on the out perimeter of a rundown carpark. The Clubs I had belonged to had their own brick under tile buildings, Transporter, bar facilities, kitchen with tea and coffee on offer. Playground area for children and a healthy bank balance. How could the UK be so behind I would ask myself?

I was loaned a DVD of Jim Biss who I had heard so much of. In his interview he made reference to the RPRA and his dissatisfaction of it. I found myself identifying with his sentiment. I subscribed to the BHW but there to I could find no value or how the RPRA was taking the sport forward. I attended the Blackpool show and found the same things been displayed year on year.

One Loft Racing was established in SA in 1996. I think OLR came much later than that here. ETS was introduced so far behind other counties. I did ask the question of ETS several times but was told it will come in time.

I make these comparisons because I feel the UK should be leading in our sport. PIPA racing website had long had the map indicator of lofts as they clock across Europe. This has only very recently been introduce on the NFC site.

If you can govern yourselves and run your own affairs why incur cost for a 3rd party to do it and why make it compulsory to belong to it before you can participate in your chosen sport.

I would appreciate an open and honest debate on the membership of the RPRA and what value it brings to each individual member.

A Club/Fed can buy your rings, Do distances on line, have you own committees and disciplinary hearings, Manage your own liberation sites and manage your own affairs.

I would like invite the RPRA Future of the Sport Committee to participate to get the best possible balance debate.

JMO.. Look forward to constructive for and against discussion.

Discussed this some time ago and later in the RP dated 3rd February 2009, just looked it up.
Under Gone Fishing.

Some had questioned the need for the RPRA and why should they have to pay subscriptions.

It is not possible to run any sport where participants compete from different areas without  having rules that apply to all.

In order to do this you have to have a ruling body that  determines all the rules involved in the activity in quesion.

How fanciers decide to what extent they want to be invloved is up to them

But all must abide by the RULES.

Our sport would be a real shambles if it was not possible to verify the ownership of individual pigeons, have universal means of calculating and conducting all that the sport involves, and all adhere to them and have rules to deal with transgressions.

As for brick buildings etc; they have to be paid for, some clubs, mine included. did all kinds of money raising activities to buy a club house, they do not grow on trees.

Pity is the membership dropped to such an extent that the Club House has had to be recently sold.

Without the RPRA ( or a relacement along similar lines) the sport could not function in a meaningful or practical manner.

I feel for the costs paid for membership and the services provided the RPRA is money well spent, the only draw back, in my opinion, those at the top need to learn they are there to serve and not dictate, along with realising the rules also appy to them.

Regards.

     

    
 
   



 

      

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MISTY wrote:

Discussed this some time ago and later in the RP dated 3rd February 2009, just looked it up.
Under Gone Fishing.

Some had questioned the need for the RPRA and why should they have to pay subscriptions.

It is not possible to run any sport where participants compete from different areas without  having rules that apply to all.

In order to do this you have to have a ruling body that  determines all the rules involved in the activity in quesion.

How fanciers decide to what extent they want to be invloved is up to them

But all must abide by the RULES.

Our sport would be a real shambles if it was not possible to verify the ownership of individual pigeons, have universal means of calculating and conducting all that the sport involves, and all adhere to them and have rules to deal with transgressions.

As for brick buildings etc; they have to be paid for, some clubs, mine included. did all kinds of money raising activities to buy a club house, they do not grow on trees.

Pity is the membership dropped to such an extent that the Club House has had to be recently sold.

Without the RPRA ( or a relacement along similar lines) the sport could not function in a meaningful or practical manner.

I feel for the costs paid for membership and the services provided the RPRA is money well spent, the only draw back, in my opinion, those at the top need to learn they are there to serve and not dictate, along with realising the rules also appy to them.

Regards.

     

    
 
   



 

      

 .

How does one even start etc to put ones thoughts down on this subject matter here. Especially if one is an outsider type looking in as such 100 odd years of achieving next to nothing maybe for your RPRA I suggest. Always appeared to me here now for years to have been reactive with what ever they have done there & sadly not prepared to be proactive in any way shape or form on pigeon matters. Average pigeon man down here would think I suspect that much of what is happening now there in a local sense is a total train wreck in motion unfortunately by our way of doing things on average here. One could even say maybe, the bull dog has been bred out of you now that you had back there around the 2nd world war era I suspect, as the majority now from my perspective appear on average to expect everyone else to do in a pigeon sense what they should be prepared to do to keep the sport alive & perhaps kicking goals for it's members. Now       read a story the other day, made me weep I'm by local standards, as I thought this is just crazy in a survival type sense that most face these days. Federation of yours,100 members/5000 birds bred each year. 1000 birds first race & 200 for the last one there apparently. Running costs alone would suggest it's on a hiding to nothing I suspect by todays standards, when I grew up in an era of 500 plus members     & 50,000 odd rings sold yearly & 15,000 plus birds in our first race as an example & they then paid out 20 Fed positions on race day to keep every one happy on the day. Now, I know the talk the talk scenario is easy But, really speaking if a piss pot little type local Fed down here can put a business model in place that generates now near $50,000 back to its 100 members each year towards it's running costs why cannot I ask here maybe, why your RPRA there now or even perhaps your local Feds also cannot now do much of the same type of thing on a pro rata basis .    

Think we are at cross purposes here Knackered.

The question as I see it ,is, IS IT NECESSARY TO HAVE A GOVERNING BODY or can you have, A DO IT YOURSELF ONE ?.

I agree the RPRA fall short in every way regarding their obligations towards the membership and the sport in general, however, without it or a similar set up you could not have fair (??????) competition.

No one has been more vocal than myself about the RPRA and their short commings towards the membership, in fact I have asked several times for them to give me one example of something they have done in the last 50 years that has benifited every member, still waiting.

In comparison to every other sport we  have stagnated. or even gone backwards.

Spent £10,000 of fanciers money on an independant report on how to improve matters, totally ignored it.

Spent even more on the raptor problem, result, we have more raptor problems
than before with the only sign being it will get worse.

So the answer to the quesion is, you do need a Governing Body preferably one that can keep up with the times and not stagnate.

Regards.

nehu do ok without all the hangers on eh ...when you look closely the same names are involved in the money aspects of pigeon racing...the bhw ,the shows,and selling products

I look at it this way: if you're sole income is from pigeons in one way or another, such as stud or shop, weekly paper or vets services, then it's in your interests to keep things running smooth as you can. Get yourself in a position of influence then more chance of achieving this.
Grass roots fanciers will always be grass roots, happy to race each week and have time for themselves doing it, apart from a tiny minority who step up to take on the officials positions. So business v hobby scenario, always been this way during my time.

Although going off the actual question, I agree with all your sentiments.

The grass root fancier has  been the mainstay of the sport regarding numbers, and have put more into the sport than taking out.

Whilst the opportunists have taken advantage at every opportunity.

This can also be found in club racing, the haves taking every advantage possible.

Did not realy worry me, we had our share of them and was delighted to beat them agains the oddds.

The real,problem has been apathy, as long  as the grass root fancier could fly his/her pigeons then they were, and still are not, worried about what happens elsewhere.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Think we are at cross purposes here Knackered.

The question as I see it ,is, IS IT NECESSARY TO HAVE A GOVERNING BODY or can you have, A DO IT YOURSELF ONE ?.

I agree the RPRA fall short in every way regarding their obligations towards the membership and the sport in general, however, without it or a similar set up you could not have fair (??????) competition.

No one has been more vocal than myself about the RPRA and their short commings towards the membership, in fact I have asked several times for them to give me one example of something they have done in the last 50 years that has benifited every member, still waiting.

In comparison to every other sport we  have stagnated. or even gone backwards.

Spent £10,000 of fanciers money on an independant report on how to improve matters, totally ignored it.

Spent even more on the raptor problem, result, we have more raptor problems
than before with the only sign being it will get worse.

So the answer to the quesion is, you do need a Governing Body preferably one that can keep up with the times and not stagnate.

Regards.

Cross purposes etc all is lost Misty I'm here, if that is so as such as I'm a typical stand alone type of guy down here in a pigeon sense & see little use for an organisation like your RPRA there, here type of thing. International type races they may have some relevance I suspect with your Brexit fiasco & the crossing borders issue, but normal everyday running in a pigeon sense should be able to be handled at a typical Combine/Fed level as long as they have & take the welfare of the pigeons as their main purpose in life at all times. Now you know as well as I do if a proper business type model was put in place, back when by now it would/should be generating huge amounts of money back to the average members of the day by now, but one basically these days has for what I see here a money machine in motion with things like your Blackpool week & the O/L race basically paying out wages & perks to those at the top there in the end, with very little benefit if any to those at a grass root type level. O/S here mentioned the UNC In relation to the your RPRA there & I have a fair idea if they ever tried pulling the wool over their eyes in telling them how & what they should do in a racing/management/money sense they would be shown the door rather smartly I somehow suspect .

Every major sport I know of has a Ruling Body, the Up North Combine are subject to  the NEHU Rules.

Horse racing has a ruling body etc;

No sport that I know of has not.

In Australia being such a large country has many different associations regarding pigeon racing as far as I can see, but all have a set of rules that have to be adhered to.

If you have competition ALL must abide by the same rules.

The only way this can be acheived and policed is by one organisation being formed to ensure that is the case.

Think fanciers for  the  pittance paid for membership of the RPRA they get more than their monies worth.

Dislike greatly and have fought for changes, from the very top downwards, the manner money etc; is used and abused and advantage taken by some and the ignoring of the Rules etc;

But that does not say the fancier does not get his/her monies worth in ensuring that their pigeons are catered for in many ways.

Without the RPRA or a similar organisation there could be no racing other  than local clubs sending their birds just down the road with more arguments etc; that would make the whole thing a fiasco.

Glad the RPRA has been around for the 80 years or so I have been involved, pity is, through the APATHY of the Grass Root fancier, for the past 50 years it has been in the wrong hands.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Every major sport I know of has a Ruling Body, the Up North Combine are subject to  the NEHU Rules.

Horse racing has a ruling body etc;

No sport that I know of has not.

In Australia being such a large country has many different associations regarding pigeon racing as far as I can see, but all have a set of rules that have to be adhered to.

If you have competition ALL must abide by the same rules.

The only way this can be acheived and policed is by one organisation being formed to ensure that is the case.

Think fanciers for  the  pittance paid for membership of the RPRA they get more than their monies worth.

Dislike greatly and have fought for changes, from the very top downwards, the manner money etc; is used and abused and advantage taken by some and the ignoring of the Rules etc;

But that does not say the fancier does not get his/her monies worth in ensuring that their pigeons are catered for in many ways.

Without the RPRA or a similar organisation there could be no racing other  than local clubs sending their birds just down the road with more arguments etc; that would make the whole thing a fiasco.

Glad the RPRA has been around for the 80 years or so I have been involved, pity is, through the APATHY of the Grass Root fancier, for the past 50 years it has been in the wrong hands.

Regards.

Your correct with what you say etc Misty for the most part as such Here thou, no one body/fed can tell another body/fed what they may or may not do come race day or where one can liberate from. Yes, we have a general code of conduct we happily abide by here in a pigeon sense, by we value our independence totally to decide & do our own thing come race day like your UNC there apparently. That being said here yesterday there was a local race on for young birds. Called the Eureka Cup, yearly type distance event which has a certain tradition type factor about it for the men types here that just love to test their young birds out the country style way here over an area larger than the UNC as such & run by a bunch of convict types fortunately, out of a place called Ballarat   & the winner on the day at this stage  actually come from a place called Traralgon     apparently, where only real men     are brave/stupid      enough to race pigeons because of the hawk factor scenario they have to bare on a daily type basis there     Now in the end here     Ballarat to Traralgon type of thing      for those here that complain about overfly on a typical race type day with young birds     between the two country towns down here it was roughly 140 odd miles difference with the general overfly factor there between the two towns on the day.

MISTY wrote:

Although going off the actual question, I agree with all your sentiments.

The grass root fancier has  been the mainstay of the sport regarding numbers, and have put more into the sport than taking out.

Whilst the opportunists have taken advantage at every opportunity.

This can also be found in club racing, the haves taking every advantage possible.

Did not realy worry me, we had our share of them and was delighted to beat them agains the oddds.

The real,problem has been apathy, as long  as the grass root fancier could fly his/her pigeons then they were, and still are not, worried about what happens elsewhere.

Regards.

Isn't that just life in general thou Misty apathy etc Tell some one now who knows absolutely nothing here what are the actual assets there of your RPRA. My thinking is if they were run by a bunch of the smart **** types they should have built up a war chest of assets over their life time there to then give back the many benefits to the faithful type of thing. 100/120 years for what a brick type building to sit a few bums on seats, maybe & pay them all an exorbitant type wage & perks as such    .   & take care.

Tis a great pity the Grass Root fanciers did not take a real interest  in the organisation and rules of the sport etc;

However, on reflection I was just the same for 40 years or so letting everyone do their own thing as long as not I was directly affected.

Then I had a rude awakening.

Attending the NE Region representing my club, to give evidence against several fanciers who had attended the AGM, tried to ruin the club having formed a breakway, then refused to pay the club subs for that year, Rules say if you do not resign before the AGM you must pay the next years fees.

At the meeting I pointed out the club had done more than the rules require to give the fanciers concerned the opportunityto comply with the Rules and there was no excuse for not doing so.

That is all I said.

The idiots came back after 'DUE CONSIDERATION' said the suspentions were lifted and I was suspended.

I asked  on what grounds and they said they did not have to give any.

Nor did they do so despite numerous requests soI could defend myself at the Council hearing of my appeal.

So I attended my hearing having no idea what was comming up, directly contrary to the Rules, (the Chairman was a complete idiot (not a clue regarding theRules) 
   
Stuffed shirt but brainless.

So I asked why I had been suspended, one of the top notchers of the RPRA stood up and said he wanted to read a letter sanctioned by the NE Region Committee (later found out several commitee members new nothing about the letter}.

It said I had done things that were idiotic to anyone with half a brain.

One allegation was that because of my conduct at the hotel they had refused the Region the facilities in fututure.

Not taking into consideration they would have had to be able to see into the future the Hotel Manager confirmed it was a load of rubbish as was the accusation I had caused a nuisance at a wedding in the hotel.

I lost my appeal by 13 to12 after asecond vote the first being in my favour.

I consulted a solicitor friend who said I should sue.

I wrote to the then General Manager with evidence from the Hotel Manager etc;and my suspension was lifted in days.

I wrote also to the then RP Editor with evidence and he said if it was made public and I sued it would bring the sport into disrepute.              
 
There is even more underhand detestable invovement but I thought the best thing to do was to try to change matters.

The first  thing I suggested was that no one could serve on the Council for more than three years, had this been adopted our sport would not be in it's present situation.

Some of those involved are still on the Council, no shame.

Anyone wanting to doubt the facts and there are more, BE MY GUEST.

So Knackerd that is why we have not progressed, APATHY not worried about anyone but self.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Tis a great pity the Grass Root fanciers did not take a real interest  in the organisation and rules of the sport etc;

However, on reflection I was just the same for 40 years or so letting everyone do their own thing as long as not I was directly affected.

Then I had a rude awakening.

Attending the NE Region representing my club, to give evidence against several fanciers who had attended the AGM, tried to ruin the club having formed a breakway, then refused to pay the club subs for that year, Rules say if you do not resign before the AGM you must pay the next years fees.

At the meeting I pointed out the club had done more than the rules require to give the fanciers concerned the opportunityto comply with the Rules and there was no excuse for not doing so.

That is all I said.

The idiots came back after 'DUE CONSIDERATION' said the suspentions were lifted and I was suspended.

I asked  on what grounds and they said they did not have to give any.

Nor did they do so despite numerous requests soI could defend myself at the Council hearing of my appeal.

So I attended my hearing having no idea what was comming up, directly contrary to the Rules, (the Chairman was a complete idiot (not a clue regarding theRules) 
   
Stuffed shirt but brainless.

So I asked why I had been suspended, one of the top notchers of the RPRA stood up and said he wanted to read a letter sanctioned by the NE Region Committee (later found out several commitee members new nothing about the letter}.

It said I had done things that were idiotic to anyone with half a brain.

One allegation was that because of my conduct at the hotel they had refused the Region the facilities in fututure.

Not taking into consideration they would have had to be able to see into the future the Hotel Manager confirmed it was a load of rubbish as was the accusation I had caused a nuisance at a wedding in the hotel.

I lost my appeal by 13 to12 after asecond vote the first being in my favour.

I consulted a solicitor friend who said I should sue.

I wrote to the then General Manager with evidence from the Hotel Manager etc;and my suspension was lifted in days.

I wrote also to the then RP Editor with evidence and he said if it was made public and I sued it would bring the sport into disrepute.              
 
There is even more underhand detestable invovement but I thought the best thing to do was to try to change matters.

The first  thing I suggested was that no one could serve on the Council for more than three years, had this been adopted our sport would not be in it's present situation.

Some of those involved are still on the Council, no shame.

Anyone wanting to doubt the facts and there are more, BE MY GUEST.

So Knackerd that is why we have not progressed, APATHY not worried about anyone but self.

Regards.

Interesting etc Misty  Pigeon politics sadly, often throws the rule book out the door to prove a point as such I suggest. Seen good men & women here, crucified in the end unfortunately, when people that should know better (in a pigeon official sense) have had a major dummy spit type moment.

Just as a posr script Knackered, I did save the RPRA from a fate wose than death.

One of the people concerned was seeking to become the General Manager, at a later date.

I wrote  to the Queen and expressed my concern, did not get a reply but he never got the position, had he done so he would still have it today, no way would he have resigned.

So you would have had, a Generl Manager who had lied, fabricated evidence and had no respect for the Rules and a BUDDY on the Regeon Council with exactly the same lack of principles.

Bad today BUT ??????.

Regards.

the rpra remind me of our government, paid to run things, yet think they are the bosses, they become power crazy forgetting that they are in fact our employees .

David wrote:

the rpra remind me of our government, paid to run things, yet think they are the bosses, they become power crazy forgetting that they are in fact our employees .

bang on the money with this comment ,and exactly how it is eh

David wrote:

the rpra remind me of our government, paid to run things, yet think they are the bosses, they become power crazy forgetting that they are in fact our employees .

wouldn't bother David putting your application in with your RPRA there for your life membership type of thing Some what futile one could possible suggest now, maybe .
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