pigeons losing homing instinct

i'm now thinking do pigeons lose some of there homing instinct if both sire and dam have not been raced even the large studs will only have one parent raced how successful breeding from unraced stock have you been i need to bring in raced birds as some birds i have must go back 3 or 4 generations to find a raced bird

Do not think they ever lose it, humans just dull their ability use it at times.

Some winners are bred from generstions of prisoners that have never seen a basket, all based on one or two winners in the family.

When you see a stud paying X number of pounds for a pigeon the truth is it usually includes a number of others not just the champion, and all are used for generations to be sold.

Homing is a natural instinct could probably be reduced or lost but only,over a prolonged period, and would not be lost in the wild ones, or they would not survive.

Regsrds.

most strays have lost there homing instinct some may not be fit but they should make it home at some time

friend and i were at the loft of the late Ken Hine a great distance flier he told us his ybs first toss was 40 mls he did not worry how long they took to get home but would never keep a bird he had to collect

ive heard fanciers are sometimes reluctant to buy young birds which are bred off a long line of non racers , if theres anything in the theory i dont know ..........but i cant really see it making much difference .

what do you think is main reason birds are lost and become strays they seem to me David they just want food and water some do return to the loft were there fed but most strays i think just have no homing instinct and go to another loft do you think David birds kept as prisoners makes any difference to the ybs

George I think all pigeons, even fantails, have a degree of homing ability. But I think more racers in recent times either lose the ability or just chuck the towel in after a certain distance. For some it's less than 20 miles and if they aren't in the batch with the rest of yours they just follow anything.
Sometimes strays are so hungry and thirsty, you get them in and they decide to make yours their new home, they aren't leaving, purely survival instinct.
I think more and more rely on the batches come race day to get them somewhere near the home end. Mobile phones, satellites etc, who really knows?

iwas in somerset brought 2 strays to oxfordshire let go nearer home they did not make it one thing i notice they both did not handle like a good pigeon and the eyes lacked any colour i also think i may have been the same breed ybs they go down but you still breed the same the following year for me a stray will always be a stray

George & Morgan wrote:

iwas in somerset brought 2 strays to oxfordshire  let go nearer home they did not make it one thing i notice they both did not handle like a good pigeon and the eyes lacked any colour i also think i may have been the same breed ybs they go down but you still breed the same the following year for me a stray will always be a stray

There are countless examples of homing abilities, little moths fly thousands of miles none stop each year as do many other speies including birds.

The last year I kept pigeons I got a stray in, rang the owner the same day, he lived in London, a friend has a son who is a policeman and lived in London and as luck would have it was over for the week end, said he would take it and release it in London.

He did so, released it at 2,00 pm. it was back in my loft at 6.30 when I looked in, rang the fancier who told me the breed etc; and said I could keep it, it was in my loft until I had to leave the sport.

Dropped a young strawberry youngster, fancier rang me up and said he had it in his garage, he sent it back and said I hope you do not kill it, sent it to a race couple of weeks later and it returned to his garage and as far as I know is still there.

Nature tells animals birds etc; when they are becomming too inbred and some get the wonderlust and go elsewhere to strengthen the instincts and strength of those involved.

Widowhood, the Darkness systems, the feeding of rubbish as aids to win and other unatural handicaps some fanciers impose on their pigeons would make them reluctant to get back in any case.

Fr batter off with a bunch of happy townies,

Load of rubbish talked about our sport at times regarding a pigeons ability.

Regards

i think its just a simple case of good pigeons and crap pigeons, you cant make a good pigeon out of a crap one.........and i`d say the vast majority of pigeons are crap .

David wrote:

i think its just a simple case of good pigeons and crap pigeons, you cant make a good pigeon out of a crap one.........and i`d say the vast majority of pigeons are crap .

AGREE 100% with that David.

Take humans of all shapes and sizes all able to walk.

Say they set off to walk as far as possible.

Some would drop out just down the road and others intemitantly and the most able probably still going.

Regards.

have you noticed the owner of a stray will tell you it's the best bred bird in his loft followed by would you like it

George & Morgan wrote:

have you noticed the owner of a stray will tell you it's the best bred bird in his loft  followed by would you like it

yes george, its always the case ...........once they tell you how good the pigeon is, you know whats coming next

MISTY wrote:

George & Morgan wrote:

iwas in somerset brought 2 strays to oxfordshire  let go nearer home they did not make it one thing i notice they both did not handle like a good pigeon and the eyes lacked any colour i also think i may have been the same breed ybs they go down but you still breed the same the following year for me a stray will always be a stray

There are countless examples of homing abilities, little moths fly thousands of miles none stop each year as do many other speies including birds.

The last year I kept pigeons I got a stray in, rang the owner the same day, he lived in London, a friend has a son who is a policeman and lived in London and as luck would have it was over for the week end, said he would take it and release it in London.

He did so, released it at 2,00 pm. it was back in my loft at 6.30 when I looked in, rang the fancier who told me the breed etc; and said I could keep it, it was  in my loft until I had to leave the sport.

Dropped a young strawberry youngster, fancier rang me  up and said he had it in his garage, he sent it back and  said I hope you do not kill it, sent it to a race couple of weeks later and it returned to his garage and as far as I know is still there.

Nature tells animals birds etc; when they are becomming too inbred  and some get the wonderlust and go elsewhere to strengthen the instincts and strength of those involved.

Widowhood, the Darkness systems, the feeding of rubbish as aids to win and other unatural handicaps some fanciers impose on their pigeons would make them reluctant to get back in any case.

Fr batter off with a bunch of happy townies,

Load of rubbish talked about our sport at times regarding a pigeons ability.

Regards





 

I personally think here it's a bit of a tragic joke to even suggest that pigeons can somehow actually maybe loose their homing ability. They may somehow loose the will to home in general in many cases, but that's more the owner's fault on average from my perspective. Now     if I can somehow chuck crows caught in my loft here at times into a basket & then have them home from 5/10 miles in good time, why should there be so many loses like we have each year with pigeons when many flyers tend to toss them from around the same type distance.

David wrote:

George & Morgan wrote:

have you noticed the owner of a stray will tell you it's the best bred bird in his loft  followed by would you like it

yes george, its always the case ...........once they tell you how good the pigeon is, you know whats coming next

shouldn't really expect anything more as such I say. We are but pigeons flyers & as one brave man here once said we are not on average the brightest bunch on the block in general .

Knackered wrote:

David wrote:

George & Morgan wrote:

have you noticed the owner of a stray will tell you it's the best bred bird in his loft  followed by would you like it

yes george, its always the case ...........once they tell you how good the pigeon is, you know whats coming next

shouldn't really expect anything more as such I say. We are but pigeons flyers & as one brave man here once said we are not on average the brightest bunch on the block in general .

you wicked man knackered .........

David wrote:

i think its just a simple case of good pigeons and crap pigeons, you cant make a good pigeon out of a crap one.........and i`d say the vast majority of pigeons are crap .

Crap if being quite honest here etc David I'd say the vast majority of them on average these days are just plain weak I'm Fed to the smell of an oily rag in many cases, blow home after blow home short distance type races like a certain one loft race I could name of some repute where money is king on average on average & unfortunately from my perspective the final decider factor over the welfare of the pigeons    .

yes knackered, these one lofts especially dont seem to care much about the welfare of the pigeons .......its all about money .

David wrote:

yes knackered, these one lofts especially dont seem to care much about the welfare of the pigeons .......its all about money .

I'm for the most part David they all on average talk the talk etc when the welfare subject is mentioned with what they do. Basically thou, history suggest unfortunately that's all it is sadly .

MISTY wrote:

Do not think they ever lose it, humans just dull their ability use it at times.

Some winners are bred from generstions of prisoners that have never seen a basket, all based on one or two winners in the family.

When you see a stud paying X number of pounds for a pigeon the truth is it usually includes a number of others  not just the champion, and all are used  for generations to be sold.

Homing is a natural instinct could probably be reduced or lost but only,over a prolonged period, and would not be lost in the wild ones, or they would not survive.

Regsrds.





   

We in certain ways Misty I suspect these days I'm live in a world of excuse maker types etc sadly, many come up against a problem/situation now in a general sense & just look for the easy way out type of thing, when it's perhaps not the best outcome maybe in the end for those concerned. Example many know here I'm not a name dropper type as such so that being said just for name sake now, I will just call these few words of waffle, The Bendigo syndrome for a simple no nonsense heading. I like many others have the greatest of respect down here for what I call local country flyers etc. Many of them over the years fly small numbers of birds each week on their own to the extreme type distances with great success & have done so for many years etc. One country club thou of repute here (100 odd years) had a reputation 2nd to none at the distance type events there well before I even knew what a pigeon was. How things change thou over time, as this club now in parts somehow thinks now sadly that 60 odd mile races there are the future in the enjoyment stakes for many of the local pigeon flyer types    . & good night