eye sign choice

halcanada wrote:

Don. Appreciate your opinions, as the other opinions on here. What the heck is a weak type of eye? Dark rich colour is better than pale, washed out looking eyes? Preference only in the eyes of the beholder.The birds race, is that not what we breed them for? Not colours, feather or eyes. So, if all had breeding 'eyes' and were kept for breeding only no races would be flown! Simplistic, I know but what is between the eyes is the most important part of a pigeon. No matter the colour. JMO.
"You may be right, I may be wrong,but you will never convince me of that." as a very good fancier once told me.
The athletes of today, human or horses or whatever are never graded as to their potential by eye exams. Just pigeons.
This is a good article.
http://schaerlaeckens.mikehopman.nl/pages/leesartikel.php?id=603

Halcanada for me a weak eye is an eye which is weak in or dull in colour, you have a point with the breeders yes everyone would not be raced and placed in the stock loft, but that is were you could be the losing a potential racer / breeder which are the top draw of all pigeon fanciers

Halcanada I will also agree with you 110% if they have not got the magic touch between both eyes then you can forget them

Halcanada the best breeding hen I ever owned was the worsed pigeon I ever raced but she could breed the goods

The article by Ad is a good interesting read

Rudderfett wrote:

If this isn't a breeder of the highest quality I will poke my own eyes out with a stick, its a janssen eye belonging to a pigeon that not only won a ton of races but filled its owners loft with gold, and that man was Raymund hermes.

And I don't have 1 even close to this or ever seen 1 up close like it,  and mostly no body else does including old Ad.

Don't  think an eye glass would be needed for this one Don.

Your right again Martyn no you don't need a eye glass for this one very nice

But can you repost the eye from Nick Brentt of Australia that was just pure class Breeding eye

David wrote:

the more I read about eyesign, the more confused I become......certain racing eyes that have been posted are crap breeding eyes,(allegedly ) so does this mean a good racer with a racing eye and not a breeding eye will not produce its kind ?  

does a pigeon that has a good breeding eye be a good racer, or can crap racers be good breeders....?

David the best breeder I ever owned was the worst racer I had ever owned and was saved from being removed from the team because we were short on hens and it was a pigeon which I had made my dad buy in 1987 for £5 from a top fancier

But to say she breed the goods well she could my only regreat was I never brought a top class cock to pair to her as the pigeons me and my dad had were just middy oka nothing special but she still bred winners every year

If I was asked to judge on a show it depends if it was ttb or handling though the bars any one can do that if the bird is clean by this I mean feet wattles nose and feathers and looks in good condition it will stand out from the rest but can hide a number of faults handling is different you can check for fret marked feathers or any parasite and over all condition deep keeled long cast short cast weak backed long legs should not come in to it as this is all down to personal preference

David wrote:

the more I read about eyesign, the more confused I become......certain racing eyes that have been posted are crap breeding eyes,(allegedly ) so does this mean a good racer with a racing eye and not a breeding eye will not produce its kind ?  

does a pigeon that has a good breeding eye be a good racer, or can crap racers be good breeders....?

David as for eyesign it's everyone to there own and what I like May not be the same taste to someone else. It's everyone to there own to be honest mate

I have been reading up about this for over 30 years ever since I saw a film by Bill Carney and I was hooked from then on with the fascination

But it still is and will always be a big point of discussion some fanciers like it and some fanciers think it's a complete was of time but it's all apart of learning something new

markevans wrote:

If I was asked to judge on a show it depends if it was ttb or handling  though the bars any one can do that if the bird is clean by this I mean feet wattles nose and feathers and looks in good condition it will stand out from the rest but can hide a number of faults handling is different you can check for fret marked feathers or any parasite and over all condition deep keeled long cast short cast weak backed long legs should not come in to it as this is all down to personal preference

Your right Mark it's everyone's own preference

Mark what club is it you fly in ???

Clairgate he with the Gloucestershire fed

You don't fly against Arthur Farrow and the Wood Brothers then ???

Which part of Wolverhampton is that club then???

Not any more they both live only five minutes from me both top class fanciers as is greham Owen top men

markevans wrote:

If I was asked to judge on a show it depends if it was ttb or handling  though the bars any one can do that if the bird is clean by this I mean feet wattles nose and feathers and looks in good condition it will stand out from the rest but can hide a number of faults handling is different you can check for fret marked feathers or any parasite and over all condition deep keeled long cast short cast weak backed long legs should not come in to it as this is all down to personal preference

True Mark much the same reason why I like to handler the birds on basket night etc "Liquorice all sorts" mixed lollies at times early in the season, but it is a great way to read how a flyer is going in my view. Though at times one can become rather confused with the result . One thing I have always done here for years is grab any new flyers & put them on putting the birds in the units/baskets. Some of the purists rather don't like it, but for the most part they have just forgotten when they were novices type of thing & I think it's good for the new fancier & if they are on the smart side of things it can work to their benefit.
*****

Yes you are right any new starter should be given all the opportunity's to learn especially the handling of birds its the only way to learn you see it all the time up and down the country with old hands who can tell you what to do but can't even hold a bird right

Rudderfett wrote:

I agree I think they do

I was hoping they did Rudd etc & that's why I used the red flag on the flag pole here. Very scientific ???      type of guy, am I.

markevans wrote:

Yes you are right any new starter should be given all the opportunity's to learn especially the handling of birds its the only way to learn you see it all the time up and down the country with old hands who can tell you what to do but can't even hold a bird right

I agree there mark, im surprised how many times ive seen pigeon men who cant even handle a pigeon correctly........and how rough they are when basketing them.

here you go Don, it really is an amazing eye.

If you were writing a book on eye sign and could put everything you expect to find in a perfect eye it would look like this, if you got a bird with an eye like this and its cant fly, or breed I will buy it...

Rudderfett wrote:

If you were writing a book on eye sign and could put everything you expect to find in a perfect eye it would look like this, if you got a bird with an eye like this and its cant fly, or breed I will buy it...

Martyn you will have to get past me first mate SORRY


Halcanada now that's what I am trying to say with strong colourful yes with loads of characteristics mate

markevans wrote:

Yes you are right any new starter should be given all the opportunity's to learn especially the handling of birds its the only way to learn you see it all the time up and down the country with old hands who can tell you what to do but can't even hold a bird right

Your spot on Mark but as you may know there are a lot of fanciers who win with the beer glass and there is a lot of fanciers who just aren't prepared to help the youngsters in this sport because they are scared they will beat them

Always loved to do the marking and handling of the birds by doing this you are able to then compare them to your own birds and try to get your own birds in the same condition and Handling the same

Just a shame with this sport its start against the best from day one

The first club I tried to join here 9 years ago would not let me in. 40 miles too short. They thought it was an advantage. That was my nearest club. 15 plus members. So joined another club. I am 48 miles behind them. Short end to long end. The first club is now down to 5 members. One guy wins 99% of the races. So many left to fly in other clubs. What they should have done is get better birds or more realistically, get better methods. You only get out of pigeon racing what you put in to it.

halcanada wrote:

The first club I tried to join here 9 years ago would not let me in. 40 miles too short. They thought it was an advantage. That was my nearest club. 15 plus members. So joined another club. I am 48 miles behind them. Short end to long end. The first club is now down to 5 members. One guy wins 99% of the races. So many left to fly in other clubs. What they should have done is get better birds or more realistically, get better methods. You only get out of pigeon racing what you put in to it.

Your spot on about the other fanciers methods

Rudderfett wrote:

Rudd I think I'm up with it ??? etc That's that Aussie eye I believe, that many were in raptures over type of thing as posted by Brent & Fleming in the past here on the internet. At a guess I would say that eye would be close to 35/40 years old now & in that time we have bred aound 8 million pigeons here (at a rough guess) & not an eye has come within a bulls roar of that eye. So !!! Go man Go if your striving to breed the same eye. Now !!! if it is not the Aussie eye of Holdens as I believe, just put all the above down to me having a seniors moment in time XXX.
*****

No its the eye alright, amazing.

Rudderfett wrote:

No its the eye alright, amazing.

What !!! Me "Amazing" for my memory or the eye Rudd etc I suspect it's the later, as it's one cracking eye with out a doubt. Even for someone like me .

both

Rudderfett wrote:

both

Strange Rudd    how we can stretch the truth some what  to make a point etc. Now !!! back to business here, would anybody like to advise me here how the like's of the Coopers, Gilbert or even Ronnie Williamson from Ireland go about judging there champion race birds by their eye's & would they refuse to place some of them in stock, if they had what many class/term a racing eye     as such.