just don't make sense

went to local club to collect some corn and heard of a member who sent his ybs with the obs in 2 races then lost them in first yb race just don't make sense

I think young birds that are training, or racing with older birds, Loose out on part of their education.
They are missing out on their homing ability, and just become followers. Young birds need to work out for themselves, really it should be natural for them. But is it the case of breeding is not the same any more, are they being bred for speed, and their homing ability is not there. not sure myself but just a thought.

devo56 wrote:

I think young birds that are training, or racing with older birds, Loose out on part of their education.
They are missing out on their homing ability, and just become followers. Young birds need to work out for themselves, really it should be natural for them. But is it the case of breeding is not the same any more, are they being bred for speed, and their homing ability is not there. not sure myself but just a thought.

Copy & paste job Devo Just Curious why you think youngsters miss out by being tossed with old birds etc. Many roads to Rome I know, but any type of toss is just part of the learning curve from my perspective. But then, I'm one of those types that is happier if my youngsters get well split up in there training tosses & the birds are going in all directions here that one could think of before finding there way home.

Knackered wrote:

devo56 wrote:

I think young birds that are training, or racing with older birds, Loose out on part of their education.
They are missing out on their homing ability, and just become followers. Young birds need to work out for themselves, really it should be natural for them. But is it the case of breeding is not the same any more, are they being bred for speed, and their homing ability is not there. not sure myself but just a thought.

Copy & paste job Devo Just Curious why you think youngsters miss out by being tossed with old birds etc. Many roads to Rome I know, but any type of toss is just part of the learning curve from my perspective. But then, I'm one of those types that is happier if my youngsters get well split up in there training tosses & the birds are going in all directions here that one could think of before finding there way home.

I feel each task any young bird does is a learning process, for that individual. When training young birds i think this is the main way to find out what you have in your team, thinkers and fact finders. Or followers that a very happy to fly with a flock. I think comes into practice on the breakaway, just my thoughts.

There are a zillion ways to select young birds. Tried most of them as regards training feeding etc,. Eyes, confirmation, pedigrees. One young fellow out West raises late breds only and ships them as yearlings following year. December hatched. Quite often they will win! Why? No idea. His theory is why ship them two years to find out if they are any good? Right or wrong, works for him. December out West is below zero F. -30 some Cent.
Years ago ran out of old birds for last few 200 milers and shipped young birds. Was in the top ten each time with 2 or 3. Nowadays, send em all, keep the highest placing ones, eliminate the others. Like breeds like 90% of the time. But each to their own.
Was talking to a fancier who was telling me about his new feed. Told me it is balanced, has everything. Asked him if he sorted the grains and fed individually. Said he did not have to. Told him then some birds were getting the full benefit most were not. A pigeon will eat to its preference. Choose one grain over another so unless a bird eats grains in proportion to the mix, balanced diet means nothing. Pellets will take care of that.

not a fancier born who can say he now's everything about pigeons we are all learning what works for one want work for another just enjoy your birds

markevans wrote:

not a fancier born who can say he now's everything about pigeons we are all learning what works for one want work for another just enjoy your birds

True Mark "Knowledge factor" but the internet is filled with people who think they do etc. One has many examples & if one looks at one loft races where the best of the best are sent on average by everyone there to take the pot of gold & yet most are very disappointed in the final outcome I suspect.

halcanada wrote:

There are a zillion ways to select young birds. Tried most of them as regards training feeding etc,. Eyes, confirmation, pedigrees. One young fellow out West raises late breds only and ships them as yearlings following year. December hatched. Quite often they will win! Why? No idea. His theory is why ship them two years to find out if they are any good? Right or wrong, works for him. December out West is below zero F. -30 some Cent.
Years ago ran out of old birds for last few 200 milers and shipped young birds. Was in the top ten each time with 2 or 3. Nowadays, send em all, keep the highest placing ones, eliminate the others. Like breeds like 90% of the time. But each to their own.
Was talking to a fancier who was telling me about his new feed. Told me it is balanced, has everything. Asked him if he sorted the grains and fed individually. Said he did not have to. Told him then some birds were getting the full benefit most were not. A pigeon will eat to its preference. Choose one grain over another so unless a bird eats grains in proportion to the mix, balanced diet means nothing. Pellets will take care of that.

Interesting Hal Balanced diet . I mentioned here earlier on how I was onto a cheap pigeon mix etc $11 a bag, where the average price is $22 to $25 a bag for 20 kilograms here. We have just finished what I call the sprint series (9 races) & I know of 3 flyers using it that have won Fed races & also the little fat blokes toss partner is using it & he is up there with the best of them in the Fed averages also. It even has safflower as part of the mix & the other day I just happened to buy a few bags  of the same to top it up & it cost me $39 for a 20 kilo bag. Decided to keep that one from the missus .

devo56 wrote:

I think young birds that are training, or racing with older birds, Loose out on part of their education.
They are missing out on their homing ability, and just become followers. Young birds need to work out for themselves, really it should be natural for them. But is it the case of breeding is not the same any more, are they being bred for speed, and their homing ability is not there. not sure myself but just a thought.

Spot on George

devo56 wrote:

Knackered wrote:

devo56 wrote:

I think young birds that are training, or racing with older birds, Loose out on part of their education.
They are missing out on their homing ability, and just become followers. Young birds need to work out for themselves, really it should be natural for them. But is it the case of breeding is not the same any more, are they being bred for speed, and their homing ability is not there. not sure myself but just a thought.

Copy & paste job Devo Just Curious why you think youngsters miss out by being tossed with old birds etc. Many roads to Rome I know, but any type of toss is just part of the learning curve from my perspective. But then, I'm one of those types that is happier if my youngsters get well split up in there training tosses & the birds are going in all directions here that one could think of before finding there way home.

I feel each task any young bird does is a learning process, for that individual. When training young birds i think this is the main way to find out what you have in your team, thinkers and fact finders. Or followers that a very happy to fly with a flock. I think comes into practice on the breakaway, just my thoughts.

Spot on again George

good pigeons are born

oldstrain wrote:

good pigeons are born

Oh so true O/S Unfortunately telling the truth as it is I'm makes for a very small book etc by the pen pushes .

Knackered wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

good pigeons are born

Oh so true O/S Unfortunately telling the truth as it is I'm makes for a very small book etc by the pen pushes .

It is true good pigeons are born, along with other living things, But to help the young one become a champion, you need to nurture that individual. For the young bird to show its true ability. This is all a part of the nurture foundations.

The loft, Stock birds, Nutrition, Breeding, Training, Health.

and I keep coming back to the days when there was no training few had transport, birds went from week one to the end and real family's of pigeons were founded I have lost 4 out of 5 at olr I have to look at if the birds were too early bred or not good enough

and also if the man managing them gave them a fair chance George...........

you can make a good one better but a bad one will always be a bad one

markevans wrote:

you can make a good one better but a bad one will always be a bad one

So true mark, if there is no ability in the first place, there never will be, no matter what you try.