Darkness system

I am having second thoughts of using the darkness system. I may just fly the young birds on natural, the season has not started yet i i hear of young birds going down in the loft. I think i will let mine fly as far possible on natural, looking at their health and development and making the right choices for them. What are other members thoughts please.

I came off the darkness for two reasons. Firstly what you say health.they were always bad with yb sickness ect.anyway just my opinion but I think feeding too late in the day didn't help.the birds had corn in the crop all night which we know is no good at all.anyway the second reason was the price of ets rings which I still strongly disagree with.so as a result we went on natural. Well it was crap watching others beat us week in week out.so we went back on the dark last season and changed feeding systems ect and we had a decent season..again my opinion I think feed has a lot to do with yb problems. ......jesus I. M knackered after typing all that sh**e lol...

longest post you've made for the past 2 years ray..........

ive heard of this before ray, yb holding corn because they are fed too late, but when ive done dark ive fed light, not too heavy.....plus always given them time to digest the food before darkening the loft.

the last time I did darkness I used the method where I took the covers off once it was dark, giving them fresh air all night and the natural dawn/daybreak the next morning......birds didn't get ybs

Yes I know david. I will be off for a week now

dev this is why I breed later now and fly them natural ...I should get 6 races into them ...will always pair end of feb or march from now on ,its cheaper its safer for the ybs as sparrow hawk hen will be on the nest when they are flitting about and they seem healthier

oldstrain wrote:

dev this is why I breed later now and fly them natural ...I should get 6 races into them ...will always pair end of feb or march from now on ,its cheaper its safer for the ybs as sparrow hawk hen will be on the nest when they are flitting about and they seem healthier

Thats it daz, i am looking at their health and development, if i feel they can go right through young card, i will be more than happy. But i do think they will be much better birds the following year by racing them on natural as young birds.

This from a Canadian site.
"" and I won 7 races; and that in spite of my young birds not having been darkened. The latter I would never recommend. The December and January born youngsters receive darkening by Mother Nature in our latitudes but the March and April born youngsters will not have enough feathers when the best races are flown. That wouldn't be so sad if they would just return home late but in reality they very often get lost and never return. Entering young birds during the heavy molt in young bird races could certainly be a fertile field of action for the SPCA in my opinion."
Way I am doing it this year.

peel bros wrote:

I came off the darkness for two reasons. Firstly what you say health.they were always bad with yb sickness ect.anyway just my opinion but I think feeding too late in the day didn't help.the birds had corn in the crop all night which we know is no good at all.anyway the second reason was the price of ets rings which I still strongly disagree with.so as a result we went on natural. Well it was crap watching others beat us week in week out.so we went back on the dark last season and changed feeding systems ect and we had a decent season..again my opinion I think feed has a lot to do with yb problems. ......jesus I. M knackered after typing all that sh**e lol...

Ray I would say feed the birds a little lighter so that they digest there food if you can get the balance you should see a difference mate

David wrote:

longest post you've made for the past 2 years ray..........

ive heard of this before ray, yb holding corn because they are fed too late, but when ive done dark ive fed light, not too heavy.....plus always given them time to digest the food before darkening the loft.

the last time I did darkness I used the method where I took the covers off once it was dark, giving them fresh air all night and the natural dawn/daybreak the next morning......birds didn't get ybs

Your right there David but can I say that there is a fancier in Belgium that does the same the fancier is in partnership with his father and also works for Natural Grains he's first name is Phillip not sure of second name

He removes the shutters from the young bird loft at 11.00pm so that the youngsters witness the sun rise and the position of the sun

oldstrain wrote:

dev this is why I breed later now and fly them natural ...I should get 6 races into them ...will always pair end of feb or march from now on ,its cheaper its safer for the ybs as sparrow hawk hen will be on the nest when they are flitting about and they seem healthier

Daz that's my thoughts also I think rather than breed early bred 10 weeks later and you may be able to fly natural and the youngsters may be able race in the important races

devo56 wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

dev this is why I breed later now and fly them natural ...I should get 6 races into them ...will always pair end of feb or march from now on ,its cheaper its safer for the ybs as sparrow hawk hen will be on the nest when they are flitting about and they seem healthier

Thats it daz, i am looking at their health and development, if i feel they can go right through young card, i will be more than happy. But i do think they will be much better birds the following year by racing them on natural as young birds.

George can I just say mate why not get your youngsters well schooled and train them N,E,S,W with plenty of single tosses and what you have left will be your best

But I KNOW NOTHING MATE good luck

halcanada wrote:

This from a Canadian site.
"" and I won 7 races; and that in spite of my young birds not having been darkened. The latter I would never recommend. The December and January born youngsters receive darkening by Mother Nature in our latitudes but the March and April born youngsters will not have enough feathers when the best races are flown. That wouldn't be so sad if they would just return home late but in reality they very often get lost and never return. Entering young birds during the heavy molt in young bird races could certainly be a fertile field of action for the SPCA in my opinion."
Way I am doing it this year.

Interesting post Hal I have seen Darkness youngsters down here racing etc, some fly good some fly crap. For me a total waste of time from my perspective, but I was most interested to read his thought's on mother nature at work in your latitudes as such, as the same thing applys here with many of what we call our late breds "Feb/March or even April, a complete mess shortly after puting them in the race loft but by June they are up & racing & looking the goods for the best of them.

Don Webb wrote:

devo56 wrote:

oldstrain wrote:

dev this is why I breed later now and fly them natural ...I should get 6 races into them ...will always pair end of feb or march from now on ,its cheaper its safer for the ybs as sparrow hawk hen will be on the nest when they are flitting about and they seem healthier

Thats it daz, i am looking at their health and development, if i feel they can go right through young card, i will be more than happy. But i do think they will be much better birds the following year by racing them on natural as young birds.

George can I just say mate why not get your youngsters well schooled and train them N,E,S,W with plenty of single tosses and what you have left will be your best

But I KNOW NOTHING MATE good luck  

Don for a guy who knows nothing, you give very sound advice to other members. I thank you once again, and take your advice for my golden rule book, thank you, Dev

some really good replies on this post but dark verses natural i have a friend who keeps fancy breeds and is a very successful showman now his birds never go out and do not have contact with other birds until the shows begin late august and obviously do not get darkened and he gets y/b sickness every year i know fanciers who inject against para 2 with y/birds before racing and still get y/b sickness so what is the answer also when y/bird sickness first rose its head it was just youngsters walking about in a stupor and bring up corn now seems to mutate each year with fanciers going to the lofts on a morning to find y/birds off colour only to be dead come teatime

thing is shippy, are we using the term young bird sickness as a blanket diagnosis , are there a few different illnesses going under the name of young bird sickness...? if a yb is ill do we automatically say "oh, its young birds sickness" when it could be a bacterial problem, paratyphoid, salmonella etc.

some say yb sickness is brought on by stress, some because they don't digest corn.....I think there are a few reasons, and possibly a few different illness`s which go under the name of young bird sickness.

David wrote:

thing is shippy, are we using the term young bird sickness as a blanket diagnosis , are there a few different illnesses going under the name of young bird sickness...? if a yb is ill do we automatically say "oh, its young birds sickness" when it could be a bacterial problem, paratyphoid, salmonella etc.

some say yb sickness is brought on by stress, some because they don't digest corn.....I think there are a few reasons, and possibly a few different illness`s which go under the name of young bird sickness.

agree david but can you remember when you bought a bird in you put it straight in the loft with the others and no problems whatsoever now i know fanciers who will not bring birds in will not buy at breeder buyers etc because they think they will get health problems and who can blame them is it to do with injecting our birds year in year out or over use of antibiotics i know of fanciers this year who have had birds only laying one egg others who have had poor hatches even one who has youngsters dieing in the nest at 14 days so changeing year in year out as you say are fanciers saying y/b sickness as general diagnosis david

yes I think a lot of time they are shippy, a yb is off colour and automatically its got yb sickness......I think your right, now when bringing any bird into our lofts, young or old, and from any other loft even if you know the fancier has good management.....its always best to quarantine them from your own birds.

Over the past few months, i have been giving my young birds and breeders, Ropa -B every other day along with Actimel the days after, The Actimel has been on offer for £2.00 a pkt, i really think this does help with young birds, even more so when they are being fed it in the nest. To be honest i would not go without Ropa-B in my loft. Just getting ready to change my spuknics, which i feel will allow even more ventilation.

shippy wrote:

some really good replies on this post but dark verses natural i have a friend who keeps fancy breeds and is a very successful showman now his birds never go out and do not have contact with other birds until the shows begin late august and obviously do not get darkened and he gets y/b sickness every year i know fanciers who inject against para 2 with y/birds before racing and still get y/b sickness so what is the answer also when y/bird sickness first rose its head it was just youngsters walking about in a stupor and bring up corn now seems to mutate each year with fanciers going to the lofts on a morning to find y/birds off colour only to be dead come teatime

thing is shippy people are un-educated and as soon as the ybs are ill they flag yb sickness ,i was chatting to henk de weerd last year about it and he said the uk is the only country to have yb sickness as fanciers umbrella any yb ailment into yb sickness instead of pin-pointing the specific problem he said to me the adeno/coli syndrome also herpes and mutating paramyxo virus are to blame for most yb problems ...note they are specific diseases not some blanket illness called yb sickness ...throw in circo virus to the mix and things can get confusing as a lot of pigeon diseases mimic eachother

[quote="peel bros"]I came off the darkness for two reasons. Firstly what you say health.they were always bad with yb sickness ect.anyway just my opinion but I think feeding too late in the day didn't help.the birds had corn in the crop all night which we know is no good at all.anyway the second reason was the price of ets rings which I still strongly disagree with.so as a result we went on natural. Well it was crap watching others beat us week in week out.so we went back on the dark last season and changed feeding systems ect and we had a decent season..again my opinion I think feed has a lot to do with yb problems. ......jesus I. M knackered after typing all that sh**e lol...[/quote


agree Ray and told dev this I never feed after 3.00pm george

devo56 wrote:

Over the past few months, i have been giving my young birds and breeders, Ropa -B every other day along with Actimel the days after, The Actimel has been on offer for £2.00 a pkt, i really think this does help with young birds, even more so when they are being fed it in the nest. To be honest i would not go without Ropa-B in my loft. Just getting ready to change my spuknics, which i feel will allow even more ventilation.

ropa b is a very good product i been banging on about it for ages everyone who has tried it that i know of rates it and has carried on using it the thing is droppings and swab tests don't lie and the results are very good

yes Darren, ropa b liquid is my favourite pigeon product, im just about to phone up to order the biggest bottle this afternoon.....

ropa b lads any difference besides price in putting in water or on corn

I prefer the liquid shippy, its easier basically.......I prefer this to adding powder to the corn.

shippy wrote:

ropa b lads any difference besides price in putting in water or on corn

all 3 do the job m8 I have always used the aqueous one but was gifted a tub of powder on their visit here which I am currently using and really like it and its the most economical way to use it ...I moisten the corn with gervit w then add ropa powder and any excess moisture is dried off with pink mineral ...if you decide to use the ropa powder then get yerself a small set of digital scales a item every loft should have atb