Moan and do NOTHING.

MISTY wrote:

Just put RPRA HALL REPORT on your computer and you can find both the report and many opinions on the matter.

Regards.

OK - thanks - have done it - will now read.

Phil

Done it also. Should be interesting!

What a mess! No wonder you folks are so hell bent on changing things!! Comment section was deleted I see.

Hal, this has been the situation in our sport for the past 45 years and more, I have since the early1970s brought all the items mentioned in the Hall Report to the attention of all fanciers through both the BHW and the RP it is well documented.

No one could care less, they would had they been treated like I was, had I not been able to look after my self I could have been deprived of my sport by a bunch of thugs (and that is being kind) they have no respect for anything or anyone other than their own like.


There is slight signs that more are becoming aware of the position and may take some action, it is funny though some of them are the ones who decried what I was saying for years that has been confirmed by the report.


Regards.

I was out last night with a few lads and i was telling them what we are dicussing here on the forum , all agreed that for the sport to survive change from the top to the bottom , but the response to the notion of putting a petition of no confidence was the powers that be would take no notice and if they did and resigned , how do we know that the new team would be any differant like jumping out of the fire into the frying pad, as they said we only know people in the circle we move in
Ken

Read twice Friendsloft. I see / feel that a change of personnel would be their thinking. I don't think is at all necessary, more a bolt up there backsides that the grass roots are fed up with being taken for mugs. To feather their nest and their friends with the money to float the sport. The fairness of a reality. Fairer sections when good birds in a location where winning a national are slim … YET put in the coffers hard earnt money for them. Those whom take great joy in beating those holding the sport together with money and hopes and dreams that they exploit.

Sections where they have a chance of their birds getting the merit that they deserve.
Later breeding and racing. When birds mating's in better weather and start racing in May!
Young bird programme could end in better conditions up to mid, OR later! National empty in mid season ... could start later and not have half full wagons. Nationals could have joint libs to cut costs. Sections in the shape of the old Viking ships. Facing the Liberation points! Best I stop now lol before I get started lol

AS I have pointed out many times, if you change those at the top on a regular basis you avoid what you have now, a clique that are a law unto themselves.

It is no good speculating about jumping from the flying pan into the fire, you have new rules that give no chance for any number of people to behave in an inappropriate manner.

You have rules that the whole membership decide and you ensure they are adhered to.

Not ROCKET SIENCE.

It is the attitude, what if, that is detrimental to any change.

With that attitude nothing will change.

There have been very good people elected and have left in disgust along with being removed on a illegal vote of no confidence.

STOP THIS NEGATIVE ATTITUDE or nothing will change other than the demise of our sport.

So when having a natter just think positive, there are some genuine fanciers with the future of our sport at heart they are just not in the right place to do so.

Instead of being negative make changes to get them in the RIGHT place, before it is too late.

Regards.

Daz please carry on what ur saying makes sence , Misty is not acase of being negative these guys these lads live and breath the sport of pigeons believe me we have tried a few things

Ken

I have every respect for Daz and have no intention of becoming at odds.

I would however point out that a leopard never changes it's spots, leave those who have ruined the sport in power and the only way is down hill.

I have PERONAL experience of the management of the RPRA at all stages and have found ALL totally lacking.

When you have liars, fabricators of evidence and total undesirables amongst those in power if you leave them and hope they change before long the sport will be long gone.

Regards.

Dont think anyone is at odds with anyone, the few that are taking part in the debate from what i can see and read we all on the same page , all looking for solutions and answers to the problems , but as you can see aonly a handfull and talking the rest are just watching no disrespect to anyone
Ken

Daz, nearly all you suggest has been put forward on many occasions along with many others but they fall on deaf ears.

The money mad do not want change, they want losses, the more the merrier, they do not want change, it may be detrimental to how they fleece the sport, fanciers are also not willing to amalgamate with other close by clubs, some close clubs fly in different feds, I have suggested using smaller transporters and if necessary have a bird limit, clubs refuse membership to good fanciers, the list is endless but many of the problems can be put at the hands of ordinary fanciers not taking an interest in the sports affairs, and others not willing to undertake changes.



Regards.

Daz,, In the last article I wrote in the BHW , FUTURE OF THE SPORT, I suggested that most inland races could be transported on the day of the race, with the daylight hours being long well into the late evening, even a liberation at 4.00 pm would give more than sufficient time for any reasonable pigeon to return from 200 miles or more, and by that time the raptors will have already had to find their prey elsewhere, and some sprint races are under 100 miles.

If the transporter set off at even 11 am, it could be at the liberation site well before the anticipated liberation time and miss the heaviest traffic.

But the slightest hurdle that Jack the selfish one comes up with is used as a stumbling block for progress.

Ge rid of the odd Jack and the sort may progress.

Regards.

'Ge rid of the odd Jack and the(n) sort may progress.

Yes Get rid off … But want we want to get rid off is happenings. First thing I did was make sure that any 'Club' proposals are meet at the FED meetings Via one or two 'NOT delegates to enhance what the club members voted on is actually done.  When they report back, if not so say so. Even bring it up again in 'Any Other Business!
As for getting rid of 'Jack' they do that themselves. O.k they will made a song and dance why, defending their past wonderful work and only put club / fed first. That's great, because they will have left a trail of 'NOT SO' which can be ensued to enhance the reason he went 'Change Needed'.


At all clubs one see the Corridors' politics behind the back of their hands. Never time to help basket etc. of course. Time is to be unpopular here too. I told them to write it down and bring it UP at club meetings. That YOU all want to hear and discuss there.
That the ideas and wants , or not, are of an interest.
Never mind the hours they spend jaw waging at places and the hours spent on the phone. To bring it all out in the open.
Yes I have asked a person in front of all if that is right what So and So is saying about them.

But whether we like it or not it is better to have them on side. 'Rather them spitting out the tent than spitting on'. syndrome. they have a voice... and sadly are often the wayward leader of self importance. IT would also help to get all on board and lesson the apathy in the club. All being a part of.

In all sports it is the 'Club spirit' that is all important. All in the boat rowing.
And often the devious one has a following. Ok a bad worker club wise, but can / could be a useful voice on the right side.

Club spirit is a must, I agree, and you need those who insist on the rules being adhered to.

But the way I look at matters of discipline and fairness.

If you have a first class doctor who saves thousands of lives and he/she decides to just kill one or two off when he/she feels like it, does the fact that the good he/she did excuse the killing and should they be allowed to carry on?



Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Club spirit is a must, I agree, and you need those who insist on the rules being adhered to.

But the way I look at matters of discipline and fairness.

If you have a first class doctor who saves thousands of lives and he/she decides to just kill one or two off when he/she feels like it, does the fact that the good he/she did excuse the killing and should they be allowed to carry on?



Regards.

Agree about the club spirit thing Misty But Just about dead here now on average in most clubs etc. One meeting a year "if your lucky" pay your dues/money & that's about it type of thing . Now the doctor scenario as such . Require more time on that one I'm    as I'm not fully awake down here yet.

Daz wrote:

Read twice Friendsloft. I see / feel that a change of personnel would be their thinking. I don't think is at all necessary, more a bolt up there backsides that the grass roots are fed up with being taken for mugs. To feather their nest and their friends with the money to float the sport. The fairness of a reality.   Fairer sections  when good birds in a location where winning a national are slim … YET put in the coffers hard earnt money for them. Those whom take great joy in beating those holding the sport together with money and hopes and dreams that they exploit.

Sections where they have a chance of their birds getting the merit that they deserve.
Later breeding and racing. When birds mating's in better weather and start racing in May!  
Young bird programme could end in better conditions up to mid, OR  later! National empty in mid season ... could start later and not have half full wagons. Nationals could have joint libs to cut costs. Sections in the shape of the old Viking ships. Facing the Liberation points! Best I stop now lol before I get started  lol

Daz Flexibility is a must these days I suggest, with any race program etc. A race program should be a guide only as what one does come race day as such & best for it not to be set in stone type of thing I suggest. In the end     Modern day thinking/modern ways in the end will have more positive things attached on the plus side than on the negative side from my perspective/experience. Now Sections are a must I suggest, especially if one flies into a large type area where on certain days one just cannot compete with those more favoured by the wind type of thing or other factors that do accure at times. Also, weird type world as it just so happened as unbelievable as it was for an old fella as such I some how won my section average in my Fed here against some gun type flyers in a local sense last year . So sections for me, give something back to the local types I feel, when all may be lost in the big picture come race day from my perspective    .

The closer the lofts are together the fairer the racing.

Unfortunately, in our country there are not enough lofts in a reasonable area to form what could be called a BIG race, and even so this still involves advantages and it is only fair to have sections which involves a number of lofts in the same location.

Years ago there were limits on the number of pigeons a fancier could send due to the large birdage now some transporters are half empty.

For more reasons than one could relate there is no way on earth racing can be conducted in a fair manner, there are too many anomalies, one just has to consider all the relative facts when assessing a pigeons performance against others.

Never realy bothered about what other fanciers did always happy woth my own, win draw or lose
and I did my share of all.



Regards.

Birdage in this Fed is 60 limit per person. Old ones many as you want. Many were shipping 100 young a week. Hoping numbers would create the drag. Worked or not do not know. Nearest loft to me is 30 plus miles away. East, line of flight. Shortest flier in the Fed is about 75 miles East. Longest 90 miles West. North 50 miles. South the Lake. Win some clubs occasionally the Fed. But regardless. My first bird home is my best bird on the day. Obviously. Not too many long races any more. For me they were ideal. So fly whatever comes up.

Hal,
Me thinks your numbers in a race must by far out number the ones in the vast majority of our races and the individual entries also.


We get the odd one or two sending three figure entries but the vast majority the low double figures.

The extent of your club racing must also pose a problem for some fanciers travelling etc;

Can remember a 12 bird limit in club racing and later a 6 bird limit due to basket capacity in the 60s but then we had more fanciers and less well off ones and transporters were in their infancy

Much preferred the railways.

One of our problems being the fact that due to the size of our country we are limited to the distance our birds can be tested inland, which is a problem regarding just where you live.

But, hey, as long as you enjoy the sport one has to accept any drawbacks which are by far outnumbered by the pleasure one can get from the sport if approached in the right manner.


Regards.

Now getting back to 'Getting all aboard'.
You can always do without Tom, Dick and harry …./ But how much better can you do with them!

Behind the back speakers, may be shy, and just want to be heard.  Or they may think it is important what they want to say, and this is te best way of getting everyone to listen to him / her. Or could just start a fight in an empty room. Whatever the case, once others 'Corridor politicians' think that they can have a bigger stage to spout on, they may well come aboard.
But it may well be the first step of a thousand miles.
Soon the grape vine will buzz and other club members (a percentage first off) will take on  board board. Have a realistic programme... and start slowly. It is a fact most don't like change.  fact most would rather sit back and let others do the work. To stand up and be counted on their behalf, or nay.
But once a majority vote the right way for change the rest will follow suit. As much as they don't like change, they hate being left out, or not noticed, and above all being a part of... yes there will will soon be that lone steer  crying out in the wilderness, because the votes are taking shape.


Once sorted ask permission for other clubs to allow you to meet at the club and state your goals, and the eway, you see it to make it work.
Never seen, or heard that a Oak tree grew over night.

halcanada wrote:

Birdage in this Fed is 60 limit per person. Old ones many as you want. Many were shipping 100 young a week. Hoping numbers would create the drag. Worked or not do not know. Nearest loft to me is 30 plus miles away. East, line of flight. Shortest flier in the Fed is about 75 miles East. Longest 90 miles West. North 50 miles. South the Lake. Win some clubs occasionally the Fed. But regardless. My first bird home is my best bird on the day. Obviously. Not too many long races any more. For me they were ideal. So fly whatever comes up.

50 here Hal But then also you can if so desired  have mum/dad grampa, gramma the dog & cat plus 6 kids type of thing & even the local hobo down the road sending 50 each week if so desired, if your happy to pay for all to race to the one property etc on any given week. Now     going back in time     I remember one well known partnership here, that in 35 years I never ever saw, the 2nd half of the partnership for some reason    .  

You can always do with Tom, Dick, or Harry, providing Tom, Dick and Harrys, adhere to what is normally called the rules and good practice.

What you do not want is the Tom, Dick and Harrys who do Not comply with either.


Also what you do not want is those who cover up and excuse the most irresponsible and hypocritical actions because Tom, Dick or Harry are GOOD FRIENDS and have done great things for the sport when in fact all they have done is use their money and position to further their own desires in the sport and some not even REAL fanciers.


The only way the sport will survive is if the recommendations in the Hall report are adopted, for starters, then the whole membership start taking an interest in it's future.


Regards.

If everything in the garden is rosy why is the sport almost on it's last legs, stop making excuses and do something, before things go beyond redemption.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

If everything in the garden is rosy why is the sport almost on it's last legs, stop making excuses and do something, before things go beyond redemption.


Regards.

Would like to suggest Misty for the sport to have a long term future, one must find a way some how for the youth & young family man type to become involved. Unfortunately from my perspective it's rather a hard battle for them to be involved sadly with the pressures normal life places on them on average these days. Job security, if they have a job      raising a young family, education, mortgage on a house etc & the must have everything attitude of today leaves very little left over for pigeons I suggest at the end of the day for Mr average man. Now speaking in local terms as such on TV to-night here, I'm told I've lost $100,000 "paper money"on the value of my house because of the housing slump in motion here. Not thou going to help many of the younger generation here in finding  a house sadly as The closest many will ever come to owning one is in dream time etc unfortunately from my perspective here & without a back yard as I call it here for a loft, the future is rather grim I could suggest & on a global scale also, just maybe I suspect.

Tom, Dick and Harry! That is why it is a must to bring them aboard. Mostly, in all the clubs etc. I have been in and such Falls into three or more cartographies. The doers / workers who have the clubs interest first and at heart and in reality hold the club together.. The Mouth that never stops spouting self praise. The Know all whose garners attention with corridor politics. Doesn't often put forward a resolution or such … but his / hers thoughts and wants are put forward vi other 'Sheep' after being convinced that A. they know all and will get some credit! The real culprit watches others gain, or fall by the sword! Now is the time to do the SAME above board. Have some on board next meeting and bring this out 'Many have great idea's and wants, but let others have the stage! Good or bad we have a ship sailing with wayward sailors. Time to ALL pull together. Keep subtlety dropping in via asking 'Am I'. 'Are we' What DO you think. Mention the Name(s) saying Your good on thoughts, what's your opinion? 'We come to bury Caesar, not... is appropriate. Don't leave them out in the cold, bring them in and appease them to think and act as YOU wish.
A big stick never convinces another threatened to agreed with one... more likely more determined to not agree... behind the back! We want them up front and on board. the are an underlining factor to what the club is and about. Indeed many good clubs have folded, or split, due to their undermining. Bring it out publicly, with praise and get them to work for you.
One only need a partner or another couple to start remembering 2- 3 matches are harder to break than one! Yes easier said than done … or is it!