tonics and medicines, are they required? or is hard work the key?

After attending the Temple park show, I noticed all the stalls selling tonic to do this, tonic to do that, and not cheap either, promising this, that and everything else, I had a word with a few lads asking the question,

Can you win these days in pigeon racing with good birds, hard work, corn and water?

Do you really need all these additives to have success these days? if so no wonder our sport is suffering with no new starters due to rising cost. My theory for what its worth, I would imagine very few of these work, I think hard work and good birds is the key, I know you need basic stuff, canker, wormers etc, I may be wrong, can anyone say theyve seen results off these expensive tonics?

Boddy and ridewoods catalogue has 25 pages of these tonics and medicines

my show racers dont get any tonics at all, good quality corn/seed, weekly bath, and once a week sprinkle off garlic in water on sunday ,
homoform mixed with canary seed,
thats all i use.

the best advice I would ever give a novice and would stick my neck out on is this, find a system for the season keep to it whatever,and make it simple, add nothing to the water except on race day electrolights or honey.
I do give natural products on the corn, like garlic oil, and lemon juice, but thats it and my birds never looked better, You cannot buy sucess in a bottle and that is gospel, if you think you can you will be waiting a long time, I would go so far as to say there is nothing on the market that will put a yard on the birds unless you talk illegal drugs.
Good pigeons first, good management second, sound food and knowlage thurd, and finally work them hard and dont be afraid to loose them if they cant stick the heat they are no good, just look at the one loft races like Europa, and see how often they put the birds up and you will see they go nearly every day, and they ended up with 700 pigeons left this year.
In my opinion save your money for better pigeons and you will not go far wrong.

what a load of rubbish if vyou want to compete treat your birds medeicate as necessary you wont compete with just naturaln products , and no they are not illegal drugs

i think i agree with both things which have been said, firstly i do think its better to treat as a preventative before breeding/racing etc, but i also think that all these tonics are just a con, not needed, and definately do not make winners out of avaerage birds...........as good fanciers have said, winners do not come from a bottle, all these tonics are designed for is to releive the struggling fancier of their money..........

this is shown by something i once read, all these tonics and potions are produced and well marketed in the hundreds, but basic grit is never hardly advertised.......why ? because there is very little profit in it thats why.

well im new to all this but i will give mine garlic and cider vinegar wen neccesary gud quality corn and only use medicines wen my birds are poorly

all i give apart from fresh water is honey and cider vinegar three times a week, 5ml per litre...........

my birds get johnsons pigeon tonic one day a week.at £6.50 a 500ml bottle it lasts for months so thats not too much to pay.grit an minerals are the 2 top things i use on addition to food and water.there is always a little food left in the trough as well at each feeding.i dont flock treat for canker only worms and cocci.this gets done mid january.everything else i use is natural like orego stim and garlic.im not a fan of aviform ultimate and at £32.00 a litre its pricey.i pmed a guy on another site he says he treats his birds with antibiotics every 3 months thats scary.

ive used the johnsons tonic but have found when its been in the water a while it all settles to the bottom of the drinker leaving what seems to be clear water in the rest of the drinker...........

I think you have not understood Ian what I have said, I have not mentioned anything about treatments for disease or Illness, of course we all treat for the basics, I was simply answering about additives that all these brands promise almost special powers for your pigeons If you use them, I think you are a bit of a grump, I can see what Don is on about sometimes with you.....

I agree with your comments about natural products

I also agree with you David

I am not the only one then

Don Web for presedent..

Never used johnson's tonic but a lot of fanciers used it in my area starting in the 1980's

Hi there Martyn just glad i am not on my own then if you know were i am coming from

Thanks for the vote

I think Ian only sees what he want to in the post and reacts without thinking or really reading whats there, I never mentioned treatments, I mentioned management and treatments come under that for me, vaccinations are also under management. Which I also didnt mention, anyway never mind we are all able to give advice, let novices make thier own minds up and pick through the comments to find a good happy medium.

I know were your coming from Martyn but with Ian he blows hot and cold

Mate everything i say he knocks and another person can put the same thing on here and they are correct so i take no notice of what Ian has to say sometime it just makes me smile

Must say everything he finds is all about this and that in a bottle never anything natural

Ask him about the "bleach" or ask David to tell you

Martyn forgot to ask hows the new loft coming on mate, Martyn do you remember the fishlock and harding partnership and Brian Kaid????

Hi Don thanks for asking, I will be putting some pictures on here soon to up date the post I put in, the loft is now up in block form, the shell. The timber is coming next week and the grid flooring so it will be all go soon, I only hope its all done for End of February to settle the youngsters in. But if not I will use another loft for the first rounders to buy more time. No I havent heared of the partnership you mentioned ..why do you ask?

Martyn as you live near the welsh boarder and you also know Derek Nicholls the two partnerships were top flyer in wales

Brian Kain was a top sprint flyer he wrote for the weekly and i kept his articals

Fishlock and Harding were also top flyer they had a sale a few years ago and the highest priced pigeon was the Westa Kadet which went for a record amount of £15,000 sold to Bruce Mcallister

Just wondered if you know them that was all mate

Don Webb wrote:

I know were your coming from Martyn but with Ian he blows hot and cold

Mate everything i say he knocks and another person can put the same thing on here and they are correct so i take no notice of what Ian has to say sometime it just makes me smile

Must say everything he finds is all about this and that in a bottle never anything natural

Ask him about the "bleach" or ask David to tell you

don do you get your kicks out of slagging people off , when i go on about medication this is because it is a must if you want to compete , don you dont have birds and have not had them for some years so how can you give advise on what to give and what not to give , i have my own opinions its up to you if you want to listen to them are anybody else in that case , i have won won races over the years and many positions so i must be doing something right , wind you neck in don and let lie , if you ask me your lacking something , pigeons i think

i hate the fact we have to treat all the time but you have to nowadays if you want to win, if you do,nt you will be the first to have problems, even though its the top flyers who are spoiling the sport we have to go with them i,m afraid

this is what i am trying to tell people you have to treat to compete unfortunately some people are under the impression that you can race only on natural products ,