Drinking water

During my time away from this site I have not been idle, indeed I have been conducting some research into drinking water for the birds.
The many fanciers who know me, are also aware of my Radical thinking and my constant urge to bust myths and theories.On another major pigeon site there was a discussion about eye sign and as usual all the theorists came out again and posted on the subject (sorry to be deviating from Drinking Water) giving their views on several eyes that had been posted.
I am NOT a believer in eye sign and over the years I have done my utmost to disprove the theory. Several people came back claiming that they had a pigeon that was picked out as a champion racer/breeder on eye sign alone.
I considered this to be absolute rubbish and to back up my opinion I offered £100 to anyone who could apply any LOGIC or factual eveidence that eye was indeed a science to be relied on. I did not have one taker for my £100 and everyone seemed to fade back into the woodwork. However, because I had not had one challenger for my money I up it tp £1000 to see if I could tempt anyone to apply some LOGIC to the theory, this challenge has been on the site for 3 months now, but no eye sign enthusiast has yet taken up the challenge.....................could this be a myth busted?
Anyway to get back to my subject on drinking water and my findings.
I know many fanciers who practice drawing water from the tap and then letting it stand for 24 hours so that the Chlorine will evaporate.......Why?
when Chlorine is an anti-bacterium why would you wish to remove the medicinal component.
Prompted by my son who is a recognised authority on Koi carp and water analysis the proceedure of letting water stand is really only a theory that someone, again, has mislead many fanciers into practicing this.
Chlorine is a very unstable chemical and the water authorities have come to the conclusion that it is far too expensive to continue its' use, indeed many areas do not include Chlorine now and the water boards are changing over to CHLORAMINE wich is much stabler in the water. Chlorine has been found to evaporate in the mains pipes, sometimes before it gets to the user!
However, Chloramide does not evaporate at all, it cannot be removed, except under special processes, and it will not harm users, the bacterial effect is the same owing to the addition of Ammonia which is an element of Chloramine.
You can discover if your area is Chlorine or Chloramine by logging onto the relevent water board for your area.
I have been in contact with my own area water board who advise me that, were you to fill a 3-4 pint drinker from the tap then the Chlorine would evaporate in just a few minutes. They also said that in removing the Chlorine you were leaving your birds open to infection by destroying the Anti-Bacterial element of Clorine. I do not expect everyone to agree with my opinions and I respect your right to hold your own, However, I do invite comments and other opinions as to what you have gained from this post.
For all those who have welomed me back to the site thank you, I hope that we can have lots more debate.
Regards
Chanco.

Interesting comment.
Chlorine has anti-bacterial bennefits, wich is good.
The question is, do we want all the bacteria gone?
Do we want some good bacteria in the gud?
Do chlorine kill both good and bad?
What about giving medicine with chlorinated tapwater?
What is the interaction of chlorine and medicine, vitamins etc. ?
Food for thought i recon.

really interesting reading malcolm why let your water stand , would you pour out a glass of water for yourself and let it stand for however many hours before drinking it , i dont think so , so why do this for the birds, can anybody tell me what is gained by this iam confused

As far as i know chlorine evoporate completely when standing in an open container, i think that is what chanco mean.

so why do people let the water stand over night niel

Chlorine enhance cancer , to get rid of the chlorine , let it stand, so the chlorine in the water could evaporate .

never done it before dont intend doing it now

malcolm having chlorine in the water is it going to affect the vitamins we put into the drinkers

stormqueen wrote:

malcolm having chlorine in the water is it going to affect the vitamins we put into the drinkers

I do not think so, according to Yorks. water they say that in a 2-3pint drinker the Chlorine would evaporate in minutes.
Food for thought though innit?

Chlorine is a strong chemical which binds to most organic molecules and can change their chemical identity, making some non-toxic compounds become toxic.
I personally would not give vitamins or anything else , when chlorine is present in the water.

somebody please tell me is there or isnt there chlorine in drinking water , if there is then if its harmful why is it put in

I think they put it in the drinking water , to prevent posible diseases , people could get from untreated water.
It is harmfull if used continuously for many years, although most people would not be affected severely , some even not effected, it all depend on one's wellbeing
Chlorine is the cheapest form of sterilization, in drinking water treatment.
Chlorine definately has an effect on medicine, rather use filtered water to drink medication, all other times the use of chlorinated tapwater would be okay to use.

Grizzle cock wrote:

I think they put it in the drinking water , to prevent posible diseases , people could get from untreated water.
It is harmfull if used continuously for many years, although most people would not be affected severely , some even not effected, it all depend on one's wellbeing
Chlorine is the cheapest form of sterilization, in drinking water treatment.
Chlorine definately has an effect on medicine, rather use filtered water to drink medication, all other times the use of chlorinated tapwater would be okay to use.

Hi Grizzle, Do you use filtered water when you take tablets for yourself, perhaps not, but you are taking medicine whice you think does not sit well with chlorinated water?
Chanco

hi malcolm, im not sure if its good or bad but whats good for humans isnt always good for animals.....this is the main arguement for amimal rights actavists use for the discontinuation of experiments on animals. id be wary about using any chemical on my pigeons as what could be a safe dose for a human could be deadly on pigeons/animals, plus the use of it in drinking water for humans is questionable as some people do not want it anyway as it is a poison. i would say if water is needed to be pure, the best way would be to boil it.

since my return to pigeons 18 months ago ive heard some wierd and wonderfull ideas which some pigeon men have, one of them is the use of bleach in the drinking water.....in my opinion someone who does this must be out of their minds, would they give their children it to drink ? or even would they drink it their selves ? i think not........

DAVID wrote:

hi malcolm, im not sure if its good or bad but whats good for humans isnt always good for animals.....this is the main arguement for amimal rights actavists use for the discontinuation of experiments on animals. id be wary about using any chemical on my pigeons as what could be a safe dose for a human could be deadly on pigeons/animals, plus the use of it in drinking water for humans is questionable as some people do not want it anyway as it is a poison. i would say if water is needed to be pure, the best way would be to boil it.

since my return to pigeons 18 months ago ive heard some wierd and wonderfull ideas which some pigeon men have, one of them is the use of bleach in the drinking water.....in my opinion someone who does this must be out of their minds, would they give their children it to drink ? or even would they drink it their selves ? i think not........

Good point David but unfortunately it is pracised quite alot. Most sterilisers have some kind of/quantity bleach in them, take Milton for instance, this is bleach product but in controlable form. I myself use Bleach but in a different way: EVERY day I bring my drinkers into the kitchen sink and spray them with neat bleach which I leave soaking for 10 mins. Then I put them under the hot water tap for a minute or so, but I do not rinse them. Finally, I get a piece of kitchen roll spray it with neat bleach and wipe my drinkers, before the bleach is dry I fill my drinkers with cold tap water.
The idea of bleach is not as drastic as many think, indeed it is practised by many Belgian fanciers and I have seen it in Germany too. Most bacteria cannot live with any form of bleach and therefore, rightly or wrongly it is seen as the answer to Anti BI's
Chanco

Chanco wrote:

DAVID wrote:

hi malcolm, im not sure if its good or bad but whats good for humans isnt always good for animals.....this is the main arguement for amimal rights actavists use for the discontinuation of experiments on animals. id be wary about using any chemical on my pigeons as what could be a safe dose for a human could be deadly on pigeons/animals, plus the use of it in drinking water for humans is questionable as some people do not want it anyway as it is a poison. i would say if water is needed to be pure, the best way would be to boil it.

since my return to pigeons 18 months ago ive heard some wierd and wonderfull ideas which some pigeon men have, one of them is the use of bleach in the drinking water.....in my opinion someone who does this must be out of their minds, would they give their children it to drink ? or even would they drink it their selves ? i think not........

Good point David but unfortunately it is pracised quite alot. Most sterilisers have some kind of/quantity bleach in them, take Milton for instance, this is bleach product but in controlable form. I myself use Bleach but in a different way: EVERY day I bring my drinkers into the kitchen sink and spray them with neat bleach which I leave soaking for 10 mins. Then I put them under the hot water tap for a minute or so, but I do not rinse them. Finally, I get a piece of kitchen roll spray it with neat bleach and wipe my drinkers, before the bleach is dry I fill my drinkers with cold tap water.
The idea of bleach is not as drastic as many think, indeed it is practised by many Belgian fanciers and I have seen it in Germany too. Most bacteria cannot live with any form of bleach and therefore, rightly or wrongly it is seen as the answer to Anti BI's
Chanco

hi malcolm, its ok destroying bad bacteria but not all bacteria is bad.....there is good and bad bacteria and destroying good bacteria could be detrimental to good health. bleach is a corosive and i wouldnt like to think what it would do to a pigeons insides, as you know on the bottle of bleach it says, if swallowed seek imeadiate medical attention....and they advise you not to vomit it back up because not only does it burn on the way down it will burn on the way back up as well.

i have seen some top flyers who have won major prizes with their birds and the drinkers are very seldom cleaned out and in fact they have green algae on them and the birds have a natural resistance to desease with good imune systems.

Good reply David, but let us not forget that the bleach content left in the drinker is very much diluted and it would be possible to drink this minute quantity with any detriment to health. Indeed, there was as school of thought not many years ago that favoured this kind of water treatment and personally I do not think of the bleach itself being dangerous but the other additions that is mixed with it.
As for good and bad bacteria. Having destroyed most of the bacteria in the gut, good and bad, it is fair to say that a pigeon can live without good bacteria in the gut, but it will not last long with bad bacteria. It is good to remember that the good bacteria can be replaced very quickly and the bad bacteria that you destroyd along with the good is best forgotten.
Chanco.

no offence to anyone but,rinse out the drinkers with bleach by all means but for there to be any trace for the birds to drink is madness,sorry just my opinion.

littlehen wrote:

no offence to anyone but,rinse out the drinkers with bleach by all means but for there to be any trace for the birds to drink is madness,sorry just my opinion.

Hello Littlehen, I take your point,but before describing it as madnes can you illustrate what you find to be madness. It must be remembered that many medicines are given which are poison in the incorrect quantities yet they are prescribed daily. My reference to bleach is not a quack type remedy but an actaul fact that bleach destroys bacteria. Whether or not you allow bleach in the drinker is a matter of personal choice but it must be remembered that this practise has gone on for years but the bleach included in the drinker is only in a minute and controlled quantity.
I have tried this myself and found there to be no 'burning effect' and with only slight taste difference and I sincerely believe that this chemical in minute quanitities can only have a good effect on the gut bacteria.
As an example of how certain poisons work with the body without killing anyone, I myself am fighting cancer at the moment and I am on Chemotherapy in tablet form. My oncologist informed me that the tablets I take are absolute poison taken in the incorrect dosage, that is why I am weightd (spl) each time I go the the hospital to prescribe the correct dosage.
This means that the body is capable of withstanding undessirable chemicals which can, in effect, be good for the receiver.
I am not advocating that everyone should start pouring neat bleach into a birds gut, but in controled and measurable quantities I am of the opinion that it can be of benefit.
It does seem strange that we fanciers will buy any chemicle off the shelf to treat a condition, how many times have you/we checked what is in this 'potion' do we always read the box and if necessary investigate what we are dispensing to our birds....................I would suggest that we do not, we just have faith that this will work for us, yet given a medicinal dose of a product which is a natural element we suddenly have a shock and horror reaction to it, if we were to research the theory in full we might find that we had misjudged the situation.
There is a full explanation of this treatment on the internet, I will find it for you and then you can make up your own mind as to whether it is 'madness'
or common sense.
I respect your opinion and your right to hold it, best wishes
Chanco.
PS. The Chlorine you have in your drinking water is in fact bleach, yet the authorities dispense it to us daily.................food for thought?

Hi Littlehen,
Dowload PigeonNetwork.com there is an artical on Bleach written by a vet.

Littlehen i agree with Malcolm 100%

Small amounts do no harm